?New Orleans?

[Need4Speed]

A question from a Canadian...

Do you as Americans feel your government acted to slowly, or even abandoned 'some' of the people in New Orleans?

Did they abandon the poor? Or is this just proof how the American government will act if you dont have money?

This is obviously a big topic all over the world, and I want to know how you the American people feel about this, if you dont mind answering, that is.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

A question from a Canadian...
Do you as Americans feel your government acted to slowly, or even abandoned 'some' of the people in New Orleans?

"your government" has to be clarified as to whether you are asking about the city, state, or federal government.
city=yes
state=yes
federal=no
It is the states responsibility for disaster preparedness. Under the federal law the federal government can not interfere with the state unless the state asks for it.

The state has authority over the states national gaurd.

Martial law can only be called by the state unless the state no longer exists.

Did they abandon the poor?

I hope you are kidding.

Or is this just proof how the American government will act if you dont have money?

That is an insult.

[Need4Speed]

Not meant as an insult at all ... This is how alot of people are viewing this in Canada. Thus, why I ask ...

I dont really watch Fox as their way too right wing, and I really dont trust anything they say.

And I dont get CNN, actualy... I only get some 22 channels, lol.


And didnt Bill O'Rielly fly off on this?

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Jeff, the problem is that this is the viewpoint all the rest of the world sees us with. Nowadays I just roll with it.

Kanye West says George Bush doesn't care about black people. And hey, if Kanye West says it, it must be true. Good enough for me.

......

So sick of the rest of the world...

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I dont really watch Fox as their way too right wing, and I really dont trust anything they say.

They are not right wing. You are just so used to getting just the left side that when you get anything other than the what is in the left wing agenda you think it is right wing. What you consider right wing is mostly just the facts that are conveniently left out by the spin the liberals are putting on what you hear trying to manipulate your thought to be what they want it to be.

The right wingers like Sean Hannity do it to. I have seen Sean leave out some facts to try and make you think his way.

And as for the Bill O'Reilly he is no more a right winger than me. Like I said before, he gives facts that the left wingers leave out.

And didnt Bill O'Rielly fly off on this?

I listen to Bill almost every day. He is mostly irritated at the lack of action at the state level.

As the facts slowly start coming out it looks like the federal level went above the call of duty trying to get the state to act and they refused to act. It looks like the Louisiana governor issued an order for the national guard to not talk about when they got their deployment orders. Another words they were late being ordered into action and the governor is trying to cover it up.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Jeff, the problem is that this is the viewpoint all the rest of the world sees us with. Nowadays I just roll with it.

Kanye West says George Bush doesn't care about black people. And hey, if Kanye West says it, it must be true. Good enough for me.

......

So sick of the rest of the world...

That is because they are not getting the entire story. It aggravates the snot of me that the media does this. They make it look so innocent. Like they are just doing their job. What ever happened to investigative reporting and getting to the truth. Report the facts and let the reader make their own conclusions.

[Need4Speed]

They are not right wing. You are just so used to getting just the left side that when you get anything other than the what is in the left wing agenda you think it is right wing. What you consider right wing is mostly just the facts that are conveniently left out by the spin the liberals are putting on what you hear trying to manipulate your thought to be what they want it to be.

The right wingers like Sean Hannity do it to. I have seen Sean leave out some facts to try and make you think his way.

And as for the Bill O'Reilly he is no more a right winger than me. Like I said before, he gives facts that the left wingers leave out.


I listen to Bill almost every day. He is mostly irritated at the lack of action at the state level.

As the facts slowly start coming out it looks like the federal level went above the call of duty trying to get the state to act and they refused to act. It looks like the Louisiana governor issued an order for the national guard to not talk about when they got their deployment orders. Another words they were late being ordered into action and the governor is trying to cover it up.

Thats totaly cool man, this is why I ask... because I know Canada, or the rest of the world for that matter doesnt, get the whole story. No comments were meant to be insulting, but like Jay said ... you got Kanye West coming on TV saying Bush doesnt care for blacks, etc ... We are only fed so much, and with what is given to us at hand, we try to decipher 'what exactly is going on' ... alot of mixed signals.

[Dave M]

I'm usually the last one that would come to Bush's defense, but I have to say the reports that are coming out now seem to show that the federal level did everything it could before and immediately after the storm. It was the state that dropped the ball. I think everyone got a false sense of security in the hours immediately after the storm because New Orleans seemed to miss the worst of it. But then the flodding started and I don't think anyone realized just how bad it was going to get, and certainly no one realized people would start shooting at rescue workers and the complete lawlessness that followed.

Not too mention, the aid that was there couldn't get into the area because all the infrastructure was destroyed.

BTW, if you want CNN coverage of the strom, just go to www.cnn.com

[Need4Speed]

Well, again ... 'from what I've been reading'

Is that the federal level didnt act quick enough...

Journalists on the New Orleans Times were able to get in and out, and werent actors like Harry Connick Jr in their before Bush and his people? They were televised doing so... so was Walmart, when they were delivering supplie's to the people... It took bush a some 3 odd days????

Homeland security is saying they werent informed by local officials, but I read somewhere the mayor was on the radio broadcast cursing and yelling for help, and that the mayor also noted he approached the government, homeland security and fema, and expressed outrage how they hadnt helped...

Now, I have read the comments of Hilary Bush going on to say ... "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working out very well for them."

... thats an exact quote.

Although congress did pass a $52 billion dollar bill and $2,000 aid to every household, and long term assistance ... but is it too little too late?

But what about the levee's? Bush says no one anticipated this? Or what about this Micheal Brown of FEMA saying he didnt know there was people trapped in the dome, when they had been their for days... and what about Bush coming back and commending his efforts and work?

I dont know... set me straight, maybe I'm reading the wrong stuff, I'm just a bored Canuck south of the border doing the night shift.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Well, again ... 'from what I've been reading'

Is that the federal level didnt act quick enough...

Journalists on the New Orleans Times were able to get in and out, and werent actors like Harry Connick Jr in their before Bush and his people? They were televised doing so... so was Walmart, when they were delivering supplie's to the people... It took bush a some 3 odd days????

Homeland security is saying they werent informed by local officials, but I read somewhere the mayor was on the radio broadcast cursing and yelling for help, and that the mayor also noted he approached the government, homeland security and fema, and expressed outrage how they hadnt helped...

Now, I have read the comments of Hilary Bush going on to say ... "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working out very well for them."

... thats an exact quote.

Although congress did pass a $52 billion dollar bill and $2,000 aid to every household, and long term assistance ... but is it too little too late?

But what about the levee's? Bush says no one anticipated this? Or what about this Micheal Brown of FEMA saying he didnt know there was people trapped in the dome, when they had been their for days... and what about Bush coming back and commending his efforts and work?

I dont know... set me straight, maybe I'm reading the wrong stuff, I'm just a bored Canuck south of the border doing the night shift.

Maybe if there weren't 150+ city and school buses stranded window-high in water, people wouldn't have been stuck in the Superdome.

Maybe if the mayor of New Orleans had been LEADING in the days prior, instead of WHINING ON RADIO TALK SHOWS a day later, more people would have made it out. Remember 9/11? Remember Mayor Giuliani? He was a leader... this guy was a clown.

Maybe if the state government hadn't failed to order National Guard Troops to the area in a timely manner, more lives would have been saved.

Maybe if the disgusting scumbag people of New Orleans (only the specific people who were barbaric enough to behave in such reprehensible ways, I'm not pointing the figure at the majority) weren't SHOOTING at relief efforts because they were breaking up their wild rape orgies and looting, the relief effort would have been more effective.

And finally... since Harry Connick Jr was physically aiding in the relief effort a couple days before President Bush got there, maybe we should just elect him president. I mean to me, that clearly shows he would do a better job.

Jesus F'in Christ.

Also... who is Hillary Bush?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Here is an article by a "left wing" news paper.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/na...gewanted=print

[Rhode Island Red]

The first and foremost biggest mistake is at the Local and state level. - Their fault is that they knew that they lived in a fishbowl, they still wanted to live in that death trap, and just one strong cat 3+ storm could break the fishbowls "glass walls" - They knew it was a matter of when... but when it came down to it... no one created a plan for those (the poor, elderly, sic, - the lower class folk ) . The reason why? well - any well-prepared, plan that would allow evactuation of all the sick, and poor will cost money... they would have to have vast-amounts-of-money set aside, busses, required fuel, drivers, evacuation centers, organizational control of the evacuees. let alone the $ necesary to create a comprehensive plan to cover all the bases... and guess what... the money would have to come from the local and state level.. and any policitian knows that additional money for this would need additional income..which means additional taxes... and these additional taxes would be the nail in the coffin for the said politicains careers, because no voter would allow a politician in office that would increase their tax burden to state and local authorities.. and the politicans would not want to end their career (most are career politicians these days) ... but without the additional funds the plan to save lives cannot be created (someone has to pay for it)

Now the Federal level is to blame for their lack of immediate response... It took 5 days before we saw the first response with national guard.. it is also their fault they have cut the Army corps of engineers budget.. and as a result the levees could not be improved ! the feds knew about the problem, but the goal to trim the budget weighed mored than worrying about some wall of dirt...


I feel the real culprit, is the inhabitants (not all) of the states themselves, the way society operates... voters did not vote for people to take in higher taxes... and the politicians as a result would not allow the creation of the plan that requires higher taxes... because they'd fear the wrath of the voters... The politicians gave exactly what the majority of the voters wanted... and the voters got it !

I really think think the focus should be on what can we do in the future since we've experienced the sins of our "as usual - dont worry about an act of God that will happen - because it won't affect me" type attitude

First thing that must happen... every one must admit blame (including the voters) that this was an expected act of god and they all were caught with their collective pants down - voters must change their attitude and perceptions... the citizens must want a plan, and they must be willing to accept that they'll have to pay for that plan in taxes (I'm optimistic that Katrina ram-rodded this fact down their throats - but it will be short lived when katrina is out of their minds, they'll be in the "don't tax me" you heartless politicians type attitude again and they policitans will be reluctant at best - actions must be taken NOW!!! while the citizenry is open to the idea)

Second thing is that the Local and state authorities must create a comprehensive plan (that includes lower class) and pass the legistlation that will pay for the plan - and not half-arse the plan (they'll 1/2 arse it if they'll more interested in re-election)

Third - federal level must be included in the plan that will be created and take quick action and not delay like they did here and handle things beyond that local & state officials cannot handle .. live up to their responsibility in their part of the plan and do not lolly gag... have a pre prepared rescue teams ready for action prior to hurricane happening is an example

in short - everyone must stop the blame game and do what is necessary to takes steps to prevent such an occurence from happening again.

How can blaming eachother and pointing fingers save lives in the future?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

The first and foremost biggest mistake is at the Local and state level. - Their fault is that they knew that they lived in a fishbowl, they still wanted to live in that death trap, and just one strong cat 3+ storm could break the fishbowls "glass walls" - They knew it was a matter of when... but when it came down to it... no one created a plan for those (the poor, elderly, sic, - the lower class folk ) . The reason why? well - any well-prepared, plan that would allow evactuation of all the sick, and poor will cost money... they would have to have vast-amounts-of-money set aside, busses, required fuel, drivers, evacuation centers, organizational control of the evacuees. let alone the $ necesary to create a comprehensive plan to cover all the bases... and guess what... the money would have to come from the local and state level.. and any policitian knows that additional money for this would need additional income..which means additional taxes... and these additional taxes would be the nail in the coffin for the said politicains careers, because no voter would allow a politician in office that would increase their tax burden to state and local authorities.. and the politicans would not want to end their career (most are career politicians these days) ... but without the additional funds the plan to save lives cannot be created (someone has to pay for it)

They actually they had a plan. Here is the plan http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/plansindex.htm No one said to implement it.

Now the Federal level is to blame for their lack of immediate response... It took 5 days before we saw the first response with national guard.. it is also their fault they have cut the Army corps of engineers budget.. and as a result the levees could not be improved ! the feds knew about the problem, bud the goal to trim the budget weighed mored than worrying about some wall of dirt...

A, the national guard is under the control of the state not the federal government.
B, Well I can't find it now but on http://www.washingtonpost.com/ there is an article saying how the Bush administration raised the amount of federal funding that was supposed to go to fixing the levees but the army corps of engineers decided to use it somewhere else. But I guess that still Bush's fault right?

I feel the real culprit, is the inhabitants (not all) of the states themselves, the way society operates... voters did not vote for people to take in higher taxes... and the politicians as a result would not allow the creation of the plan that requires higher taxes... because they'd fear the wrath of the voters... The politicians gave exactly what the majority of the voters wanted... and the voters got it !

Yep Everybody wants everything but no one wants to pay for it. "Let the rich pay for it."

I really think think the focus should be on what can we do in the future since we've experienced the sins of our "as usual - dont worry about an act of God that will happen - because it won't affect me" type attitude

First thing that must happen... every one must admit blame (including the voters) that this was an expected act of god and they all were caught with their collective pants down - voters must change their attitude and perceptions... the citizens must want a plan, and they must be willing to accept that they'll have to pay for that plan in taxes (I'm optimistic that Katrina ram-rodded this fact down their throats - but it will be short lived when katrina is out of their minds, they'll be in the "don't tax me" you heartless politicians type attitude again and they policitans will be reluctant at best - actions must be taken NOW!!! while the citizenry is open to the idea)

Second thing is that the Local and state authorities must create a comprehensive plan (that includes lower class) and pass the legistlation that will pay for the plan - and not half-arse the plan (they'll 1/2 arse it if they'll more interested in re-election)

Third - federal level must be included in the plan that will be created and take quick action and not delay like they did here and handle things beyond that local & state officials cannot handle .. live up to their responsibility in their part of the plan and do not lolly gag... have a pre prepared rescue teams ready for action prior to hurricane happening is an example

in short - everyone must stop the blame game and do what is necessary to takes steps to prevent such an occurence from happening again.

Well there is a need to find the problem so you know what to fix. If a person is the problem they will get the blame.

But you are right about one thing. The people elected the governor and they got what they asked for.

[95TransAm]

Remember 9/11? Remember Mayor Giuliani? He was a leader... this guy was a clown.

A point I was going to make and a good one. Mayor Giuliani had NY prepared before hand for a crisis situation. The mayor of NO and the governor are both a complete joke.

How about that mayor stating that he would only want the people to be evacuated in "greyhound like busses". And because of this, how many busses remained underwater, and he just decided the superdome was a better alternative.

How about when Oprah visited the superdome, and wanted to go inside and take a look. The mayor was going on and on how inside is the most horrific thing ever complete with dead bodies and what not. He kept telling her this sob story, and kept trying to prevent her from going in. She goes in, and of this was true. Granted, it's not the best way to live obviously, but he was just a complete liar about a lot of things.

Louisiana knew for a long time that this was a possibility. The money was there, but I guess it wasn't that important to build upon levees that were predicted to withstand up to a category 3 hurricane because anything bigger would be impossible to hit them

I don't want to sound cold in any way. I do have a heart, and I feel absolutely horrible for all those good, decent, hard working people who just lost everything. It's because of this which angers me so much about how they (the state) could have prevented if not all of this destruction, then most of it. Measures could have been taken a lot earlier...but I guess it wasn't important enough.

As for the looting and shooting at rescue workers...I don't even want to get started in to that. It's these few j@ck*$$&$ that are going to ruin efforts for many others.

[wolfdogs]

do yall know what Brown did before he became the director of FEMA?

he was president of the Arabian Horse Association............