This should seal GM's fate. Article in my local paper.

[markd79ta]

Here is an article in my local paper pertaining to the decline in SUV sales. If sales are plummeting in Colorado where 4 wheel drive is actually needed, then it is a given that the SUV craze is over. I bet GM wished they pursued the XV8 now, maybe a 4cyl diesel or something. Have you all read much about the XV8, what an awesome engine sitting nicely in GMs circular file. Heck, even the Cobalt gets pretty miserable mileage in comparison to the Civic. I think it is pretty much over for the General.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...138848,00.html


On a side note. My manager has a Durango. That gasaholic requires a refilling every three days...that is some serious cash. Even he, with the money he makes, wants to dump it.

[wolfdogs]

I'm gonna have to dissagree withcha broh.... and no offense, believe me..

actually, the 'smart folks' in Col., Montana, and areas tha really do need 4x4's are a totally diff purchasing crowd of the SUV's......

I live 50 miles south of Washington DC.... there are more SUV's on the road than any other type of vehicle...and it snows here about 3 times a year...at best....

most of them are blinged out with thousand dollar 22" wheels and tires and every acceossory for the suv known to man... middle income black and white men...competing with the "joneses" to see who can have the fanciest suv.....

every soccer mom, grocery getter, you name it...an SUV.... a status symbol..

has gas prices stopped em? nahhhhhhhhhh...they just give up buying those extra bags of mulch and having that neighborhood cookout party once a month......

[Steel2686]

I think GM is headed in the right direction. The HHR is selling like crazy, along with the still hot Equinox. The releases of the Solstice and Sky are great moves. They should steal some sales away from the Miata and S2000 buyers. It's a work in progress. It won't happen overnight, but it seems the ship is being righted.

[markd79ta]

I'm gonna have to dissagree withcha broh.... and no offense, believe me..

actually, the 'smart folks' in Col., Montana, and areas tha really do need 4x4's are a totally diff purchasing crowd of the SUV's......

I live 50 miles south of Washington DC.... there are more SUV's on the road than any other type of vehicle...and it snows here about 3 times a year...at best....

most of them are blinged out with thousand dollar 22" wheels and tires and every acceossory for the suv known to man... middle income black and white men...competing with the "joneses" to see who can have the fanciest suv.....

every soccer mom, grocery getter, you name it...an SUV.... a status symbol..

has gas prices stopped em? nahhhhhhhhhh...they just give up buying those extra bags of mulch and having that neighborhood cookout party once a month......

We have those people as well. However, many of those 22" inch wheel decked out SUVs were obtained second hand. And, for those that have the cash, there are a lot of ways to keep up with the Jones without purchasing a SUV...BMWs come to mind...those have flooded our roads in recent months. New SUV purchases have fallen sharply...that is where the manufacturers make their money. For instance, my parents live at 7,300 feet and they are both pushing 80. My father finally decided to get a 4 wheel drive SUV two years ago for the security in snow. He really wanted a Tahoe or Expedition. When I showed him the MPG on the window sticker, he back off and purchased the Envoy. However, in talking to him now, he probably would have looked at a AWD crossover because the Envoy burns up to much fuel as well. Additionally, my manger makes a ton of money, but he is paying over $400 a month for gas. Even though he likes SUVs, he plans to scale down as well. I have two other co-workers in my office who parked their SUVs this summer and bought smaller commuter cars. They both kept their current SUV for the mountains, but will not buy another. This is the trend and the numbers support it. Any percentage of loss, kills GM because they put all of their eggs in that basket.

[markd79ta]

I think GM is headed in the right direction. The HHR is selling like crazy, along with the still hot Equinox. The releases of the Solstice and Sky are great moves. They should steal some sales away from the Miata and S2000 buyers. It's a work in progress. It won't happen overnight, but it seems the ship is being righted.

I think the Sky will do well, but the Sky, Solstice, Equinox, and the HHR can't keep them from bankruptcy It will be interesting to see if they can revamp their vehicle fleet before bankruptcy is the reality. I don't think their 2007 SUV up-lift is going to do anything for them. I just don't see them competing with Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, and DC right now or in the near future. The hybrid and diesel technology is just to good with these manufacturers. In the next three years, there will be a flood of offerings from these guys with high MPG diesels and hybrids in all their cars.

[Steel2686]

Agree and disagree. While the larger SUV's will dwindle in sales (Tahoe, Suburban, etc...), the smaller SUV's will take their place in sales eventually (Equinox, Vue, Trailblazer even). Many of the larger SUV owners will "downgrade" to a more fuel efficient SUV like the Trailblazer (when compared to the Tahoe). There will always be a market for a mid-sized SUV.

The Explorer sales are still strong considering their problems.... and there are many. My Wife, Uncle, and Father-In-Law all have newer Exploders. All are junk. We're trading ours in soon, probably for a Trailblazer. We drove a used Trailblazer for a month while our Blue Oval was in for repairs (ironic, I know). We loved it.

[Steel2686]

I think the Sky will do well, but the Sky, Solstice, Equinox, and the HHR can't keep them from bankruptcy It will be interesting to see if they can revamp their vehicle fleet before bankruptcy is the reality. I don't think their 2007 SUV up-lift is going to do anything for them. I just don't see them competing with Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, and DC right now or in the near future. The hybrid and diesel technology is just to good with these manufacturers. In the next three years, there will be a flood of offerings from these guys with high MPG diesels and hybrids in all their cars.

Fortunately, GM has their own hybrid technology (instead of borrowing it from other companies). When they begin to release several hybrid vehicles, that might boost their sales enough to bring them back to glory. The key is to release them sooner than later, and with minimal problems. You're right... The competition in this market will be very high.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

pfffffffft on hybrids. Lame band-aid solution.

[markd79ta]

Fortunately, GM has their own hybrid technology (instead of borrowing it from other companies). When they begin to release several hybrid vehicles, that might boost their sales enough to bring them back to glory. The key is to release them sooner than later, and with minimal problems. You're right... The competition in this market will be very high.

The hybrid technology is good with regard to the smaller commuter Toyotas and Hondas. Where GM is going to get crushed is with the diesel technology offered by the Germans especially with the strengthening Chrysler and Dodge products. The VW and DC passenger car diesel technology is excellent. The CDC diesels will soon find their way into the 300, Charger, Durango, and 1/2 ton trucks. The CDC 300C goes on sale in Europe next year. The hybrid full size SUVs and light trucks seem rather dumb in concept...at least from a practical purpose. I am not going to rush out to buy a hybrid truck when I use my truck to go to the rock yard to pick up landscaping materials, or to pick up a load of wood in the mountains, or to tow my car hauler to the track. Displacement on Demand is nice and all, but what are most people going to buy...a Tahoe with DOD that is lucky to break 20mpg on a good day or a Durango that gets high 20s, or better yet a large AWD sedan that gets 30s? Personally, I trust the longevity and ease of use of a diesel as opposed to a hybrid. My next car will be a diesel mostly likely in the VW or DC camp...they just seem to have the best technology and offering right now and for the foreseeable future.

The biggest problem GM faces now is that they no longer have a niche lucrative market. They owned the larger sedan market, but gave that away. They owned the 20 something muscle car market, but gave that away. The SUV and truck market is extremely competitive, evolutionary, and dwindling. They have zero foot hold on the compact market. And, finally, the mid-size car market is a black hole for GM with so little investment it is sickening. The only thing that they have in their pocket is the 50 something rich guy Corvette market. I have no doubt that GM will react and put out some nice vehicles, but it will likely be too late. Anyhow, I just find it interesting to see articles like this knowing how much of GMs R&D dollars are going into SUV development; it just makes me say what the ______! ...especially, when most of us have see the writing on the wall for a long time. As a GM loyalist who was responsible for 8 new GM car sales among friends and family over the past 10 years, I am a little annoyed to say the least.

[Steel2686]

It is a bit maddening, I agree with you there. I was on cheersandgears a couple months ago, and there was a thread about how GM is going to use the Duramax diesel platform to create a turbo-diesel line of vehicles. A couple days later, the thread was gone. It might have turned into a flame war as usually happens when people post rumors on that site, but who knows?

If there is some truth to that rumor, GM needs to take the quicker route to release than they usually like to do (New Camaro comes to mind). We'll see...

[markd79ta]

It is a bit maddening, I agree with you there. I was on cheersandgears a couple months ago, and there was a thread about how GM is going to use the Duramax diesel platform to create a turbo-diesel line of vehicles. A couple days later, the thread was gone. It might have turned into a flame war as usually happens when people post rumors on that site, but who knows?

If there is some truth to that rumor, GM needs to take the quicker route to release than they usually like to do (New Camaro comes to mind). We'll see...

The Duramax is a great power plant for a heavy duty light truck, but they would need to go back to the drawing board and design a completely new I4 and I6 for passenger car and SUV use. There is no way that they will get this done in this decade and probably the next without help and the capital for the R&D, and I certainly wouldn't spend my hard earned money on one if they did. It took the German Manufacturers over 20 years to perfect the designs. Although, it is not out of the realm of possibility that GM will be acquired similar to Chrysler Corp especially if they continue to spiral into financial problems.

[Dave M]

I'm gonna have to dissagree withcha broh.... and no offense, believe me..

actually, the 'smart folks' in Col., Montana, and areas tha really do need 4x4's are a totally diff purchasing crowd of the SUV's......

I live 50 miles south of Washington DC.... there are more SUV's on the road than any other type of vehicle...and it snows here about 3 times a year...at best....

most of them are blinged out with thousand dollar 22" wheels and tires and every acceossory for the suv known to man... middle income black and white men...competing with the "joneses" to see who can have the fanciest suv.....

every soccer mom, grocery getter, you name it...an SUV.... a status symbol..

has gas prices stopped em? nahhhhhhhhhh...they just give up buying those extra bags of mulch and having that neighborhood cookout party once a month......

Ken, did you see the statistics in the article? SUV sales off over 40% nationally over last year. There was just a piece on our local tv yesterday about sales of used SUV's and how many dealerships have stopped accepting SUVs as trade in because they can't get rid of them. If they do take them, they're giving way less than blue book for them. I think $3.00/gallon gas has made a lot of people realize they don't need an SUV and they can manage with a sedan or a small crossover.

As you said, many people buy them for the status symbol or because they want the big vehicle, not because they really need an SUV. It's the people who really need them that will keep buying them, those who want the status will find a different way to get it.

[markd79ta]

.....We're trading ours in soon, probably for a Trailblazer. We drove a used Trailblazer for a month while our Blue Oval was in for repairs (ironic, I know). We loved it.

Have you checked out the Jeep Liberty Diesel? It may be worth a trip to your local dealer. You will save a ton of $$$ in gas over the Trailblazer. The Trailblazer is a nice vehicle, but it will have a much higher cost of ownership down the road.

[Dave-S]

If you want to talk about the "demise" of GM or Ford or even Chrysler, then SUV's are only part of the problem. Don't forget that Toyota and Nissan also sell many many SUVs and Trucks as well. The big difference is they do a much better job with the car segment of their business as well. The big three and in particular GM and Ford have to do a better job in the car market as well and that is what I see as the problem. I recently saw an automotive analyst talking on this very subject and he doesn't see fuel prices causing the demise of the SUV. He remarked it was only a temporary setback for now and I tend to agree with him.

I just got my latest issue of Car and Driver. If you have it ,or can at least read it, take a look at Brock Yates monthly column on this very subject. He has a lot of eye opening information in there on the subject being discussed here.

[Steel2686]

Have you checked out the Jeep Liberty Diesel? It may be worth a trip to your local dealer. You will save a ton of $$$ in gas over the Trailblazer. The Trailblazer is a nice vehicle, but it will have a much higher cost of ownership down the road.

Yeah... My Brother works for a GMC/Chrysler/Jeep dealership. My Wife isn't crazy about the Libertys, plus we have three young kids. It would be tight to say the least. My Brother all but talked us clear out of a Grand Cherokee. Chrysler refuses to fix the enormous transmission problems the GC and Durangos have. Those are the only two vehicles his delaership ever STOCKED transmissions for. He said the Libertys are put together real nice, though.