Ethanol?

[2Fbodcru]

So what does everyone think about all of this buzz about ethanol lately? The way Bush talks, we will be seeing this E-85 (85% alcohol - 15% gasoline) at gas stations everywhere - soon. I’m wondering how hard it is going to be to modify our cars, if necessary, to use this fuel

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I don't know anything about it but I heard someone say the octane is higher in the E-85.

[2Fbodcru]

I don't know anything about it but I heard someone say the octane is higher in the E-85.

Thats right, whichs means higher HP, according to Bush in his State of the Union address recently

[Injuneer]

Higher octane only means more HP if you take advantage of the octane.... e.g. higher compression. The fact that alcohol brings along some oxygen helps it make "more power", but then you also have to remember that you need to burn a larger volume to get any power at all.... ethanol has less energy content than gaoline.

Ethanol is corrosive, and many parts of the fuel system need to be upgraded to avoid damage while using it. This is what one pro-E85 website says has been done to flexible fuel vehicles to allow them to handle the E85:

What are the differences in an FFV compared to a regular gasoline-only model? Are different parts used?

There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV, the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV’s fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device, and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses.

Can a car be retrofitted or converted to use E85?

We do not recommend the conversion of a gasoline-only vehicle to operate on E85. FFVs that come with original equipment from the manufacturer have the same warranties as gasoline vehicles and they are specially suited to use E85 as efficiently as possible and to burn cleaner.

Will I hurt a gasoline-only vehicle if I use E85?

Yes. Longer-term use of E85 in gasoline-only vehicles may cause damage because of the incompatibility of the alcohol fuel with the parts in gasoline-only engines. Performance and emissions will also be compromised.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Yes, octane is higher with E-85.

I believe one of the problems with the fuel, if used in an un-modified conventional gaoline motor, is that the higher alcohol content can eat through fuel lines that aren't prepared to handle it.

Another change is a different stoichiometric ratio of combustion for the fuel. Fuel mileage will decrease because it burns faster than gasoline - if I remember right, ethanol burns about 33% faster than gasoline, but don't hold me to that.

EDIT:
haha, Fred beat me to it

[wolfdogs]

we (gsa fleet) have been using E-85 vehicles for a long time. there are always problems with them too.....

and..the fuel is impossible to find. heck, weve' got customer agencies out there that bought the duel fuels to "be with the tide" and have never run ethonol cause they cant find the fuel without driving 200 miles to fill up!

[wolfdogs]

Higher octane only means more HP if you take advantage of the octane.... e.g. higher compression. The fact that alcohol brings along some oxygen helps it make "more power", but then you also have to remember that you need to burn a larger volume to get any power at all.... ethanol has less energy content than gaoline.

Ethanol is corrosive, and many parts of the fuel system need to be upgraded to avoid damage while using it. This is what one pro-E85 website says has been done to flexible fuel vehicles to allow them to handle the E85:

freds info is correct all the way...

dont try and use it in a standard gasoline motor...vehicle.

[2Fbodcru]

That's some good information guys, thanks

[DeWynter]

That would be no good for most high end ATV vehicles, as ethanol destroys those engines.

[Crazy Canuk]

CNN did a HUGE story on it like 2 weeks ago that may provide a little insite.

They say that the main hang ups are the lack of supply. More biotech advancements need to be made to get more fuel out of more products. It has the potenchal of great things. Imagine you use corn husks for the fuel, meanwhile shipping food stuffs to countrys where they dont have enough to eat. All at the same time keeping the money from the fuel in north amarica.

A plant in Ottawa is being set up currently in Canada. Here is the CNN story:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...7959/index.htm

I am all for clean energy, it is getting exciting indeed.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

we (gsa fleet) have been using E-85 vehicles for a long time. there are always problems with them too.....

and..the fuel is impossible to find. heck, weve' got customer agencies out there that bought the duel fuels to "be with the tide" and have never run ethonol cause they cant find the fuel without driving 200 miles to fill up!

I pass a Sunoco station on my way to work every day that has E-85

They also have 110 octane Turbo Blue at the pump

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

There's a Citgo here in Annapolis selling E-85. I think it was about .30 cheaper than 87 octane.

[ExtinctBird]

we (gsa fleet) have been using E-85 vehicles for a long time. there are always problems with them too.....

Ken, what problems related to the fuel system are you seeing with the E85 vehicles?

I have been pretty excited of the prospects of E85 since the CNN story and the GM commercials came out. It would be wonderful to stop sending our money to the Middle East, and we would suddenly be no more interested in their fanatical wars than we seem to be for other parts of the world. It seems to have been a great success in Brazil, for example.

There are just no gas stations in the Northeast that sell E85 yet.

[wolfdogs]

Ken, what problems related to the fuel system are you seeing with the E85 vehicles?

I have been pretty excited of the prospects of E85 since the CNN story and the GM commercials came out. It would be wonderful to stop sending our money to the Middle East, and we would suddenly be no more interested in their fanatical wars than we seem to be for other parts of the world. It seems to have been a great success in Brazil, for example.

There are just no gas stations in the Northeast that sell E85 yet.

hard starting and corrosion of some components... the corrosion has gotten better now in the last few years and not that bad...

you do get around 30% less gas mileage using E85, it's not nearly as efficient as gasoline.