Magnetic Motor?

[95TransAm]

I'm going to try and make up some scenario here to try and better understand.

Say you have someone trying to create prepetual motion.

You have a motor, generator, whatever, that takes 100 units of energy to keep it in motion. This same generator will not have an output of 100 units of energy due to friction, drag, heat, etc... some of this energy is lost due to variables.

Now, the goal is to use energy created to keep this generator in motion. If 100 units are required, and 50 units are needed to overcome variables, then you have a remaining 50 units to try and keep this motor in motion. Being the motor needs 100 units, and only 50 are available, the motor reduces to half the speed. The same thing happens again, and again, and the motor slows down until it eventually stops. If the motor were to produce say, 150 units of energy, and 50 units were lost as usual, than it would have that remaining 100 units to keep it in motion. But enabling a generator to produce over 100% efficiency, as we know it, is impossible...so we can factor that out.

Now I may be heading the totally wrong way with my analogy here, or I may be confusing myself...but I'm just trying to relate it to something I think I can better understand.

[Joe 1320]

you got it.

[ryan34]

That's correct. It takes more power to move the generator that the generator would produce.

So what about amplifiers? Don't the electric companies use amps to creat more power from the generators? Or am I completely wrong about this? If it is amped, would it STILL take more energy to power the generators then they produce?


Or how bout this for energy savings.....what if all vehicles had generators hooked to there wheels. Lets say they could store the energy they created in a battery(maybe in the trunk or something). At the end of the day they could plug the car into their house and store it in another battery and use that energy to heat water, power A/C or something? I know it would be expensive as hell but is there any possibility in this happening?

(sorry to hijack TraceZ)

[Joe 1320]

So what about amplifiers? Don't the electric companies use amps to creat more power from the generators? Or am I completely wrong about this? If it is amped, would it STILL take more energy to power the generators then they produce?


Or how bout this for energy savings.....what if all vehicles had generators hooked to there wheels. Lets say they could store the energy they created in a battery(maybe in the trunk or something). At the end of the day they could plug the car into their house and store it in another battery and use that energy to heat water, power A/C or something? I know it would be expensive as hell but is there any possibility in this happening?

(sorry to hijack TraceZ)

It's already being used........That is called regenerative braking. On electic vehicles, the braking system is actually a generator system that is used as brakes. It recovers some of the energy lost and directs it back into the charging system to replenish the batteries. It still cannot supply enough to make up for the power loss used to drive the vehicle. You still run down the batteries and it requires a re-charge.

You just have to understand that it takes more power to perform work than can be generated from the same device. We simply don't have the technology yet. Not sure if we ever will using the current (no pun intended) configurations. This is where cold fusion begins to have some interest. here is some interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

[95TransAm]

It's already being used........That is called regenerative braking. On electic vehicles, the braking system is actually a generator system that is used as brakes. It recovers some of the energy lost and directs it back into the charging system to replenish the batteries. It still cannot supply enough to make up for the power loss used to drive the vehicle. You still run down the batteries and it requires a re-charge.

You just have to understand that it takes more power to perform work than can be generated from the same device. We simply don't have the technology yet. Not sure if we ever will using the current (no pun intended) configurations. This is where cold fusion begins to have some interest. here is some interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

Exactly...that's why fully electric cars were a joke. It all makes better sense now too. The regenerative portion isn't producing nearly enough energy that it takes to make it a daily driver. From what I remember in lecture, I believe one of the most fully efficient electric cars produced by gm could go something like 85 mph for 220 miles or so. It would then take 5-6 hours at a station that could recharge the batteries faster to get you back on the road. The rate of charging though made it that you didn't get a 100% full charge. The assistance of an internal combustion engine is what it takes to make it daily drivable...i.e. that's how hybrids work.

On a side note, hybrids are interesting (as well as craptacular) to work on. Lineman's gloves, as well as a full body suit (sometimes), are required. Never touch a big 'ol orange wire. They can carry 440 volts and enough amps to kill ya. The system needs to be disabled, and the car needs to sit for 5 minutes to allow all capacitors to discharge. The wheels also cannot move during this. Movement of the wheels will recharge the capacitors and the system, and you are back to square one. Another interesting note is accidents. Road workers are currently being trained to understand how to treat an accident in which a hybrid has been involved. The system can actually kill workers during their rescue efforts. Currently, we were told that a certified hybrid technician has to come out, disable that system, and wait out those 5 minutes before workers can use the jaws of life, tools, or whatever it takes to rescue those people trapped. Imagine that...possibly dying in your car, and having to wait all of this out before rescue attempts can be started. Not a situation I would like to be in if you ask me.

That cold fusion article was a good read also. Imagine having cold fusion powering the automobiles we drive. I think it would give the profession of being a technician a whole new meaning. I hope I'm alive to see the day when we can efficiently and precisely control alternate ways of creating and harnessing energy. Our way of life can be totally different as we know it.

I know this has turned in to a little off topic from the original thread, but an interesting conversation the less.

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

Exactly...that's why fully electric cars were a joke. It all makes better sense now too. ....

Don't forget that the power to pump all those electrons into the batteries every night has to come from somewhere. Unless you have a dependable windmill or roof full of solar panels (which wouldn't work at night anyway) you pretty much need to plug it in to a socket and sap electricity from the nearest power station which burns coal or maybe nuclear fuel to make electricity. What if everybody plugged their cars in at night and it was 90° and humid so all the air conditioners were running, you would have brownouts all over the place. The environmentalist whackjobs that want electric cars in every garage haven't thought about all the ozone created from all those electric motors sparking away which is poisonous to humans. They would want to collect it somehow and use it to patch that hole in the sky.

[Joe 1320]

The environmentalist whackos that want electric cars in every garage haven't thought about all the ozone created from all those electric motors sparking away & eating into that hole in the sky which, along with cow flatulence and undersea volcano eruptions, is causing global warming and glacier melt.

And don't forget the byproduct of Ken's regular visits to Taco Bell.

[95TransAm]

Don't forget that the power to pump all those electrons into the batteries every night has to come from somewhere. Unless you have a dependable windmill or roof full of solar panels (which wouldn't work at night anyway) you pretty much need to plug it in to a socket and sap electricity from the nearest power station which burns coal or maybe nuclear fuel to make electricity. What if everybody plugged their cars in at night and it was 90° and humid so all the air conditioners were running, you would have brownouts all over the place. The environmentalist whackjobs that want electric cars in every garage haven't thought about all the ozone created from all those electric motors sparking away which is poisonous to humans. They would want to collect it somehow and use it to patch that hole in the sky.

Another couple good points. What do you expect with the environmentalist wackos. I mean, I'm 100% in favor for a cleaner, safer, healthier planet...it benefits all of us. I can't stand it when there are groups of people that point fingers and complain about everything when they don't know what they're even talking about. They have no clue as to where energy is derived from, and what it takes to create it.

And don't forget the byproduct of Ken's regular visits to Taco Bell.

Single-handedly why the polar glaciers have been melting radically for the past 10 years

[Roger in Kensington]

Another couple good points. What do you expect with the environmentalist wackos. I mean, I'm 100% in favor for a cleaner, safer, healthier planet...it benefits all of us. I can't stand it when there are groups of people that point fingers and complain about everything when they don't know what they're even talking about.

Folks, you probably don't know how much cleaner our cities are today than they were about a hundred years ago when horses were the primary source of urban locomotion.

In New York City, for instance, many barges loaded with horse manure (and horse carcasses) were towed out to sea off the Jersey coast and dumped.

Diptheria and tetanus, both present in horse manure and spread by flies and puncture wounds, were major causes of death (along with tuberculosis).

Our environment is far cleaner because of automobiles as compared to "environmentally friendly" (and highly energy intensive) horses.