d@mn nascar

[94Z/28]

Yea, I agree the COT isn't too good looking. But it's supposed to reduce all the aero problems (by being less aero dependent), right? If that's the case, then the racing will be even closer, right?

The only problem is that they're going to reduce to 300-327? cubes by around 2009. They want to get it back down to 680-700 horses, so I'm not sure how much a near 200 horsepower reduction would affect lap times.

I sure hope all this will turn out to be better racing

Man if NASCAR drops the HP down that much I think super late models will be faster on tracks like Bristol and Martinsville. A good professional built motor in late models are makeing around 625 give or take a few. The advantage we will have is offset chassis, bigger right side tires, 60% left side weight, 2800lb minimum weight and so on, but who knows late model rules may change by then. Here is a picture before the first Blizzard series race in P'cola last weekend.

[IMG][/IMG]

[FroSSty]

You really didn't just blame NASCAR for the import craze.....did you???

Well...Yes and no...Think about it. If Nascar was still made up of production cars like it was when it began, do you think we would have to be driving around FWD Monte Carlos or FWD Taurus/Fusion etc. FWD Nascar? i don't think so...So at least we would have a RWD Monte Carlo with an option for a High Output version...

[fastTa]

Well...Yes and no...Think about it. If Nascar was still made up of production cars like it was when it began, do you think we would have to be driving around FWD Monte Carlos or FWD Taurus/Fusion etc. FWD Nascar? i don't think so...So at least we would have a RWD Monte Carlo with an option for a High Output version...

I did think about it....and I have no idea what you are talking about. How one can somehow magically associate NASCAR racing and the end result of an auto manufacturers decision to save a buck and meet certain fuel economy needs is beyond me.

FWD cars began to be mass produced in the 1980's because the Corporate Average Fuel Economy and production costs dictated that they do so. They are cheaper to manufacture, they save interioir space, and due to the greater drivertrain efficiency and weight savings, they get significantly better MPG. LOL, and like you said yourself, there are no FWD NASCAR vehicles, so how in the world could a 800 HP RWD race car have influenced an auto manufacturer to produce an economical FWD car??? LOL

NASCAR is by far the leader in R&D for performance and handling in a car. If anything the auto manufacturers are straying from NASCAR influence when they build economical FWD cars.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

I agree, Kev. Cars back in the day could get 10 mpg and still be sold. Also, at the time big cubes meant big horsepower...but technology has changed to allow smaller engines to perform adequately with decent mileage.

There's no practicality in making an SB2 RWD car. Last year, Carl Edwards made 770 RWHP on the chassis dyno. Probably this year it's closer to 790. To tone it down to a production type practical car (i.e. 450 hp stock exterior) would be very discouraging for fans in my opinion. Heck, most exotics and all supercars would be able to outrun them...and I'd hate that day if it were ever to happen I guess each person's opinions on it are different.

[FroSSty]

NASCAR is by far the leader in R&D for performance and handling in a car. If anything the auto manufacturers are straying from NASCAR influence when they build economical FWD cars.

That is Exactly what I am saying!!! I should have explained it a little better but I am on my lunch break so time is limited... I truly believe that if, somehow, the manufacturers would have kept up with the advancements made by NASCAR then we would have better looking and performing RWD cars available. However, there is no way that the auto manufacturers can produce an 850 hp reliable production car so they would have to meet somewhere in the middle between blistering fast performance of today's NASCAR platform and that of there production counterpart...

There's no practicality in making an SB2 RWD car. Last year, Carl Edwards made 770 RWHP on the chassis dyno. Probably this year it's closer to 790. To tone it down to a production type practical car (i.e. 450 hp stock exterior) would be very discouraging for fans in my opinion. Heck, most exotics and all supercars would be able to outrun them...

You are telling me that you would not want a car that looked and performed just like or pretty close to a Nascar because it only made 4-500 hp (or more) out of the box? Most exotics and super cars can't outrun the 06 Z06... They are "rated" at 500 hp...

BTW...I am not dogging NASCAR in any way...I like to watch it when I have time but unfortunately I usually have other stuff goin on. O well...Lunch time is over...

[Craig 94 TA GT]

You are telling me that you would not want a car that looked and performed just like or pretty close to a Nascar because it only made 4-500 hp (or more) out of the box? Most exotics and super cars can't outrun the 06 Z06... They are "rated" at 500 hp...

I want a Cup car, auto manufacturers don't. They will lose money on a car of that caliber. No question about it, only true enthusiasts with lots of money could buy it...unless they somehow made it under $70k...which won't happen.

But I can see what you're saying...to derive a production car from a Cup car. I guess it's possible, but Cup cars have nothing to do with street cars...even high performance ones. They're race cars, period and do not belong on the street unless you're one of the few 0.01% (or less) that enjoy a harsh, noisy, crazy ride. I know I would, but I can't shell out the $$$ they put into R&D into them.

But I really would love to pull 2Gs on a corner and accelerate to 100 mph in < 6 seconds...would be nice

[fastTa]

That is Exactly what I am saying!!! I should have explained it a little better but I am on my lunch break so time is limited... I truly believe that if, somehow, the manufacturers would have kept up with the advancements made by NASCAR then we would have better looking and performing RWD cars available. However, there is no way that the auto manufacturers can produce an 850 hp reliable production car so they would have to meet somewhere in the middle between blistering fast performance of today's NASCAR platform and that of there production counterpart...

BTW...I am not dogging NASCAR in any way...I like to watch it when I have time but unfortunately I usually have other stuff goin on. O well...Lunch time is over... [/QUOTE]

First you blame NASCAR for not "pressing" to have auto manufacturers make cars for NASCAR, then you say:

if, somehow, the manufacturers would have kept up with the advancements made by NASCAR then we would have better looking and performing RWD cars available

So which is it? NASCAR or the auto manufacturers?? I think you have confused yourself.

You are telling me that you would not want a car that looked and performed just like or pretty close to a Nascar because it only made 4-500 hp (or more) out of the box? Most exotics and super cars can't outrun the 06 Z06... They are "rated" at 500 hp...

I'm not sure if you have ever ridden in a NASCAR car or even been to a race, but I have done both. Texas Motor Speedaway has a program called Team Texas. They allow people to ride along for 4 laps at about 175-180 MPH or you can pay the big bucks and drive one of the cars for pre-determined laps(I will be doing that this summer .) I did the 4 lap ride along and let me tell you, NASCAR car's are EXTREMELY loud inside and outside! Every gear in that car is straight cut to put more power to the wheels. Straight cut gears are very loud! Then you have the exhaust. The suspension on that car is designed for one thing and one thing only.....to hold that car on the track at speeds of 200 MPH or more. This makes for a ride that is well....less than desirable for a daily driver. The steering ratio is also very low, so that would result in significant under steer on the street. I can go on and on and on....there is nothing about a NASCAR car that would be desirable for most as a daily driver on a public road. Just the same as having a Pro Stock or Pro Mod car as a daily driver.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

I drove one two years ago around Pocono. Great experience...not for the faint of heart. At 170 mph, the car is loud, hot, uncomfortable, and hard on the kidneys. With that said...I would (and will) do it again in a heartbeat!

But, for a street car...not even close. Manual everything....old school.

[FroSSty]

I just think that if NASCAR rules stated that you had to start with a production car using, at least, the stock platform, that we would have better cars right from the dealership. Similar to how back in the 60s and 70s, all three big manufacturers were actually building cars that competed with each other instead of NASCAR being pressured to give advantages to the "least aerodynamic"(boohoo the nose on my dodge isn't as aerodynamic as the one on the chevy; NASCAR: OK OK well you can have an inch lower front bumper...etc.) cars.

So which is it? NASCAR or the auto manufacturers?? I think you have confused yourself.

IMHO, both...Like I said, if NASCAR rules would have stated that teams must use a stock platform (and maybe body panels shaped like the actual car), then the OEs would have been forced to release a nice RWD platform to compete in NASCAR...Like the Superbirds and Cudas and Chevelles and Camaros of the 70s etc... Of course it may have evolved into a whole different sport for the bad like F1 or CART... Oh well it is what it is...not stock cars though...Maybe they should call it NAMCAR, National Association of Modified Car Auto Racing.

[fastTa]

I just think that if NASCAR rules stated that you had to start with a production car using, at least, the stock platform, that we would have better cars right from the dealership. Similar to how back in the 60s and 70s, all three big manufacturers were actually building cars that competed with each other instead of NASCAR being pressured to give advantages to the "least aerodynamic"(boohoo the nose on my dodge isn't as aerodynamic as the one on the chevy; NASCAR: OK OK well you can have an inch lower front bumper...etc.) cars.


IMHO, both...Like I said, if NASCAR rules would have stated that teams must use a stock platform (and maybe body panels shaped like the actual car), then the OEs would have been forced to release a nice RWD platform to compete in NASCAR...Like the Superbirds and Cudas and Chevelles and Camaros of the 70s etc... Of course it may have evolved into a whole different sport for the bad like F1 or CART... Oh well it is what it is...not stock cars though...Maybe they should call it NAMCAR, National Association of Modified Car Auto Racing.

You really don't understand the big picture. The auto manufacturers that exist today spend millions of dollars on advertising and marketing. Do you know who their primary focus is for spending all that advertising money? The average American automobile consumer, not a NASCAR team.

The succesful auto manufacturers sell 10's of thousands of cars per year for each given model. IF NASCAR were to still use modified stock-like cars, do you really think a automobile manufacturer would waste their time to devote millions upon millions of dollars to design and build a car that would be to the liking of NASCAR just so the auto manufacturer could sell them maybe a dozen cars per year per team??? C'mon let's think this through.

[FroSSty]

do you really think a automobile manufacturer would waste their time to devote millions upon millions of dollars to design and build a car that would be to the liking of NASCAR just so the auto manufacturer could sell them maybe a dozen cars per year per team??? C'mon let's think this through.

Yes...Isn't the C5R and C6R factory backed? Don't you think that NASCAR is more known to the general public than the AMLS? I know that OEs spend millions on garbage that never see the general public...

It is obvious that I cannot convey my exact thoughts to this thread without being misunderstood. It is also pointless to argue about NASCAR because it is what it is and it will always be that way.

[fastTa]

Yes...Isn't the C5R and C6R factory backed? Don't you think that NASCAR is more known to the general public than the AMLS? I know that OEs spend millions on garbage that never see the general public...

The Corvette racing teams and racing cars exist largely to show off the Corvette's abilties and help to strengthen the production version's sales. The Big 3 all have their own separate Motorsports departments largely independent from the mainstream production and design teams.

It is obvious that I cannot convey my exact thoughts to this thread without being misunderstood. It is also pointless to argue about NASCAR because it is what it is and it will always be that way.

Nobody is misunderstanding you here. You just aren't conveying a very logical thought pattern. You have contradicted yourself several times and then when asked which was it, you say "both." NASCAR is evolving and changing every single season day in and day out, so what exactly do you mean by "it is what it is???"

[FroSSty]

The Corvette racing teams and racing cars exist largely to show off the Corvette's abilties and help to strengthen the production version's sales. The Big 3 all have their own separate Motorsports departments largely independent from the mainstream production and design teams.

LOL...So you are saying that the Auto manufacturers WILL in fact back a race team? Even in a less popular racing series? Talk about contradictions...

Nobody is misunderstanding you here. You just aren't conveying a very logical thought pattern.

It seems it is only you that is misunderstanding, or maybe you just like to argue with people (the airplane thread comes to mind ). So, like many others, I am done with this thread and your condescending typing patterns.

[fastTa]

LOL...So you are saying that the Auto manufacturers WILL in fact back a race team? Even in a less popular racing series? Talk about contradictions...

It seems it is only you that is misunderstanding, or maybe you just like to argue with people (the airplane thread comes to mind ). So, like many others, I am done with this thread and your condescending typing patterns.

That which makes no sense can never be understood. You are the one who invoked the tangent discussion......are you man enough to withstand a mature debate?? Your response was just what I expected once Craig and myself called you out on your confusion.....you start blaming everyone else. Like I said, I expected it and you fullfilled my expectations. Dont' be so smug.