Do people really fall for this stuff?

[Roger in Kensington]

Is that the best you've got?......seriously?

Oh, no. Since you ask, yes, I can do better.

I thought it went without saying that we were discussing normal people. People capable of taking care of themselves and of handling their own financial affairs. People whom we trust with the franchise (for those of you in Loma Linda, "the vote"), issue drivers licenses to, and are not legally barred from owning firearms. That people are falling for an e-mail scam indicates that they are at least capable of operating a computer.

So pardon me for assuming that we were talking about reasonably competent adults.

But, of course, someone has to cite the example of "ignorant and unintelligent people". Is that what we are discussing here? Those who are incapable of handling their own affairs? I submit that it is more likely the people who fall for these scams are regular folks who are simply greedy. They are trying to make a fast buck and they get burned. Aw. Too bad.

Works the same for me. No one's going to when my assets are worth $4000 less in two weeks' time because the markets fluctuated. That was the risk I took. That's why it's called an investment, as opposed to a lower-yielding savings account. And no one deserves a cut when the assets increase by 10 grand.

And I can do much, much better than this if asked to. My point is that normal people make foolish choices for which they know better, and when things go bad they have no one to blame but themselves, and I'm sick of people whining about it when it happens. People who cannot take care of themselves need some consideration, but that's not the group we're talking about.

Now, let me ask the Forum this one:

In the news recently was the theft of a laptop computer from a Veterans Affairs employee. The employee had taken the computer home. The computer contained the personal information (name, address, SSN, health information) of over 26 million veterans, and several million more active-duty military personnel. Not only does this compromise the bank accounts and privacy of the potentially affected individuals, it will also cost you the taxpayer many tens of millions of dollars to correct. [For the record, you don't deserve it.]

What do you think should happen to that employee? What do you think actually happened to that employee?

[fastTa]

Oh, no. Since you ask, yes, I can do better.

I thought it went without saying that we were discussing normal people. People capable of taking care of themselves and of handling their own financial affairs. People whom we trust with the franchise (for those of you in Loma Linda, "the vote"), issue drivers licenses to, and are not legally barred from owning firearms. That people are falling for an e-mail scam indicates that they are at least capable of operating a computer.

So pardon me for assuming that we were talking about reasonably competent adults.

But, of course, someone has to cite the example of "ignorant and unintelligent people". Is that what we are discussing here? Those who are incapable of handling their own affairs? I submit that it is more likely the people who fall for these scams are regular folks who are simply greedy. They are trying to make a fast buck and they get burned. Aw. Too bad.

Works the same for me. No one's going to when my assets are worth $4000 less in two weeks' time because the markets fluctuated. That was the risk I took. That's why it's called an investment, as opposed to a lower-yielding savings account. And no one deserves a cut when the assets increase by 10 grand.

And I can do much, much better than this if asked to. My point is that normal people make foolish choices for which they know better, and when things go bad they have no one to blame but themselves, and I'm sick of people whining about it when it happens. People who cannot take care of themselves need some consideration, but that's not the group we're talking about.

LOL, Roger you are as predictable as you are truculent. Just the same are your sophomore efforts to once again avoid the fact that you stated, as well as implied, that people deserve adversity or misfortune as a result of a poor decision.

Allow me to post a quote from you one more time because you aren't going to snake your way out of this one.

If you fall for something like this, you deserve to have your accounts cleaned out.

I suppose next you are going to quote me another P.T. Barnum quote that says "Money is in some respects life's fire: it is a very excellent servant, but a terrible master." What I find comically ironical is that Barnum was best remembered by his affiliation with freak shows. Barnum was a boorish and pompous idiot.

The blunder you are making that is inhibiting you from developing a well conceived logic in all of this, is that all people have an appreciable amount of common sense. *NEWS FLASH* They do not, and God forbid we judge, lest denounce, someone based strictly upon their admensuration of moral aspiration and allotment of intellectual capacity.

[Steel2686]

I don't know why, but I feel like chiming in here. By the way - Great debate from both of you. You're trading barbs with each other without getting personal, plus your write-ups are very well stated.

I believe, as Roger implied, you are both talking about different groups of people. I can see where Roger is coming from about certain people getting what they deserved. However, there are some people intellegent enough to use email, yet have close to no common sense. I know a few people like that, but that's a story for another thread. Those people, many of which live paycheck to paycheck, look for any way to get ahead. Desperation can be a terrible feeling. The average person won't think straight when desperation sets in. I don't believe they truly deserve what they get. Should they look to an email from a Nigerian courrier to heal all that ails them? No... But again... Desperation can be ugly. Clouds the mind.

Also, the elderly have become far more computer literate, even if just for email. Dimentia, Alzheimer's, and just simply, old age, can all be factors as to why someone like that would fall for a scam like this. It's hard to wrap our minds around that because most likely, most of us don't even know anyone who would fall for it. The predators, however, are only banking on the few that would.

On Roger's side of the debate, I can see why he would be sick of the whining. I get pretty tired of seeing it on the news from time to time. There was a scam here in Connecticut a couple years back. It involved a fairly well replicated Gov't letterhead. I am a bit fuzzy on the details, but basically it was the old "Give us $XXXX and we'll return double the amount in one year's time". They claimed it was a Government funding bond. The sad part is, the scammers were preying on the wealthy!!! I'm talking about people with bank accounts in the high six digits and up! Now they were simply being greedy. They were ing that they lost a few grand. While that would bury me, it wasn't a huge hit to them. Yet, they were looking for sympathy from a 5-digit a year guy like me. Sorry. You deserved it. Another fool parts.... nevermind.

Anyway... Just my take. Carry on, boys.

BTW - Kevin, please don't lambaste me with your big words. I won't be able to defend myself as my mental thesaurus has taken the week off.

[fastTa]

BTW - Kevin, please don't lambaste me with your big words. I won't be able to defend myself as my mental thesaurus has taken the week off.

What fun would that be. You know what they say about the kitchen and the heat.

[Steel2686]

What fun would that be. You know what they say about the kitchen and the heat.

Oh, you can do it... Just don't expect a well written response.

[Wild Willy]

"Boorish and pompus", "ironically comical" Oohh, Mongo like! Good debate about greedy opportunists being hoisted on their own petard, versus trusting (less cynical?) people being taken advantage of. Tough call, and no absolute answers, here.

No doubt, some people will be victims of the con men. Doesn't mean that we need to embrace this victimization mentality. Do we REALLY want Big Brother, the government, to have a hand in all our day-to-day dealings? Not me- but, yes, living in the land of the free entails much personal responsibility. So does driving, voting, and many other of the personal freedoms enumerated here.

I don't think this is a debate that can be won- more likely, we can lay the relevant points on the table, and come to our own conclusions. What we choose to embrace speaks volumes about our own values and attitudes, a Rosharch test of personality.

Also, you guys are ruining the stereotype of the typical F-body owner as a young, surly guy with gold chains and unbuttoned shirt.;^)

[fastTa]

People have an inherant responsibility to exercise integritry and gumption; acquiescently people also have an inherant duty to excercise a relatively appreciable amount of decency to one another.

Does one supersede or antiquate the other?

[fastTa]

Also, you guys are ruining the stereotype of the typical F-body owner as a young, surly guy with gold chains and unbuttoned shirt.;^)

That's why I made the scary avatar.

[Roger in Kensington]

Allow me to post a quote from you one more time because you aren't going to snake your way out of this one.

Okay.

You're right.

I did.

You win.

So what?

I suppose my expectations are too high. I expect capable adults -- including sesquipedalian adults -- to exhibit sound judgement.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury is that really so unreasonable?

When people knowingly build vacations homes on barrier islands in an area frequented by hurricanes, should they be surprised if/when said homes wash out to sea? And should I feel sorry for them.

No and no.

Now, saying that doesn't mean I want it to happen to them. But they usually come running to thee and me via the government to cover their losses. If you contend that they don't deserve to lose their foolishly located vacation homes, then why do you or I deserve to be required to pay for them? Not to mention that they so often want to rebuild in the same location!

Same thing holds for people who insist on building in a known flood plain . . . and refuse to buy subsidized (by you and me) flood insurance. Or on an active fault.

When some smooth-talking whackjob convinces a bunch of people to sell everything they own and give it to him because the world will end on date certain, should I weep a sad tear in my glass of cold beer when date certain passes and they are left sitting on their now-deflated assets on some distant mountaintop and the whackjob is sitting in a chair on a beach in Cancun in the shade sipping on a fruity adult beverage? (Like that sentence, Kevin?)

Nay, nay say I. These folks are moonbats. They deserve (and you may quote me . . . and probably will) to be impoverished, if for no other reason than to serve as an object lesson for others with similar moonbat tendencies (unfortunately, moonbats seldom learn). They ought no more be entrusted with the care of their finances than an idiot child should be entrusted with a machinegun.

As the "pompous boor" said, "Never give a sucker an even break."

There are plenty of other examples.

"Oh, yes, the check is in the mail."

"No, I'm not married."

"Of course I'll pull out in time."

"Only driven to work on Sundays by a little old lady."

. . . and so forth.


What? You're STILL not happy?!!? But you won!

You deserve it.

By the way, ain'tcha interested in what happened to the VA employee?

[bru333]

What do you think should happen to that employee?

They should be fired and possible prosecuted.

What do you think actually happened to that employee?

Transferred to a diffferent section with a raise and a promotion.


Good discussion guys. Really got me thinking now. I really didn't expect it when I posted this.

[Roger in Kensington]

They should be fired and possible prosecuted.
Transferred to a diffferent section with a raise and a promotion.


Good discussion guys. Really got me thinking now. I really didn't expect it when I posted this.

You are not far from wrong in at least one of your guesses, but let's see what others say before I tell you what actually has happened.

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

Okay.

You're right.

I did.

You win.

So what?

I suppose my expectations are too high. I expect capable adults -- including sesquipedalian adults -- to exhibit sound judgement.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury is that really so unreasonable?

When people knowingly build vacations homes on barrier islands in an area frequented by hurricanes, should they be surprised if/when said homes wash out to sea? And should I feel sorry for them.

No and no.

Now, saying that doesn't mean I want it to happen to them. But they usually come running to thee and me via the government to cover their losses. If you contend that they don't deserve to lose their foolishly located vacation homes, then why do you or I deserve to be required to pay for them? Not to mention that they so often want to rebuild in the same location!

Same thing holds for people who insist on building in a known flood plain . . . and refuse to buy subsidized (by you and me) flood insurance. Or on an active fault.

When some smooth-talking whackjob convinces a bunch of people to sell everything they own and give it to him because the world will end on date certain, should I weep a sad tear in my glass of cold beer when date certain passes and they are left sitting on their now-deflated assets on some distant mountaintop and the whackjob is sitting in a chair on a beach in Cancun in the shade sipping on a fruity adult beverage? (Like that sentence, Kevin?)

Nay, nay say I. These folks are moonbats. They deserve (and you may quote me . . . and probably will) to be impoverished, if for no other reason than to serve as an object lesson for others with similar moonbat tendencies (unfortunately, moonbats seldom learn). They ought no more be entrusted with the care of their finances than an idiot child should be entrusted with a machinegun.

As the "pompous boor" said, "Never give a sucker an even break."

There are plenty of other examples.

"Oh, yes, the check is in the mail."

"No, I'm not married."

"Of course I'll pull out in time."

"Only driven to work on Sundays by a little old lady."

. . . and so forth.


What? You're STILL not happy?!!? But you won!

You deserve it.

By the way, ain'tcha interested in what happened to the VA employee?

Well written. I have been following this thread for the sole purpose of seeing well written posts like this. In a forum (broadly speaking of the internet as a whole) where so oftin werds are mispeld in such an harribal way as to maek a persin fisically ill, it is nice to see a discourse such as this between and among true gentlemen who know how to debate in an intelligent and respectful manner. Roger, this post that I qouted above was borderline poetic. I almost felt as if I was reading a lighter helping of Doctor Seuse. And, fast TA, I thought I had a big vocabulary. You had me going to Dictionary.com to translate some of your thoughts. LOL It is nice to see intelligent debate that doesn't turn to name calling and childish exchanges of insults. Well done, guys.

[fastTa]

Okay. You're right. I did. You win.

This isn't a contest. It is a gentlemanly discussion of a mature subject. We deserve to keep it that way and not allow it become a whimsical rencontre.

I suppose my expectations are too high. I expect capable adults -- including sesquipedalian adults -- to exhibit sound judgement.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury is that really so unreasonable?

Then you expect that which is not real. The cold hard reality of this world is that unfortunately, a significant number of humans don't posses the capacity for adequate mental rationale to exercise a noteworthy measure of good judgment. That's the reality that does not warrant nor accept your expectations.

Do you enjoy my sesquipedalian ways? I do. I deserve it. With over 1,000,000 words at our disposal to accurately articulate our thoughts, it is foolish, imbecilic, incautious, irrational, ineffectual, nugatory, preposterous, and inefficacious to not capitalize upon such a wealth of vocabulary. We deserve to do so.

Roger, you little devil.....you wouldn't be again trying to avoid the true nature of this conversation....would you?

When people knowingly build vacations homes on barrier islands in an area frequented by hurricanes, should they be surprised if/when said homes wash out to sea? And should I feel sorry for them.

No and no.

Now, saying that doesn't mean I want it to happen to them. But they usually come running to thee and me via the government to cover their losses. If you contend that they don't deserve to lose their foolishly located vacation homes, then why do you or I deserve to be required to pay for them? Not to mention that they so often want to rebuild in the same location!

Same thing holds for people who insist on building in a known flood plain . . . and refuse to buy subsidized (by you and me) flood insurance. Or on an active fault.

When some smooth-talking whackjob convinces a bunch of people to sell everything they own and give it to him because the world will end on date certain, should I weep a sad tear in my glass of cold beer when date certain passes and they are left sitting on their now-deflated assets on some distant mountaintop and the whackjob is sitting in a chair on a beach in Cancun in the shade sipping on a fruity adult beverage? (Like that sentence, Kevin?)

I enjoyed it thoroughly.

However, I would have cited a more accurate and exemplary reflection of the point that I am trying to teach you:

We are no more qualified to judge one another than we are to foolishly pretend to wear the crown that empowers us to condemn. You see, Christianity is an intrinsically beautiful thing. It is the only society in the world where membership is available only to those who aren't qualified. We are not qualified to name the name of our creator, just the same as we're not qualified to be a part of His church. And that in itself qualifies us to be in it…… The recognition of that and the dependence upon Him to do for us what we are unable to do for ourselves.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it. During our short lifespan here on Earth, we are spirits having a human experience, not humans having a spiritual experience. The befitting and pervasive attitude that we must have toward those with abnormally immeasurable common sense is nothing less of an attitude of compassion, tenderheartedness, and kindness.

After all, they deserve it.

By the way, ain'tcha interested in what happened to the VA employee?

I am uncontrollably slaphappy at the anticipation of hearing your perspective on this.

[Roger in Kensington]

Roger, you little devil.....you wouldn't be again trying to avoid the true nature of this conversation....would you?

And what would the "true nature" of this conversation be? Oh, here it is:

However, I would have cited a more accurate and exemplary reflection of the point that I am trying to teach you:

We are no more qualified to judge one another than we are to foolishly pretend to wear the crown that empowers us to condemn.

This from a man who in a previous post regarding homosexual "marriage" states:

It goes without saying this is wrong so let's help to do something about it.

That I agree with your preachy statement in no way detracts from the obvious fact that you are being judgmental!

How dare you, sir? Why do you get to be judgmental but condemn me for it? There's a word for that. Hmm, let's see. What's that word? (snap fingers, snap fingers, snap fingers) Oh, now I remember. That word is hypocrisy.

The cold hard reality of this world is that unfortunately, a significant number of humans don't posses the capacity for adequate mental rationale to exercise a noteworthy measure of good judgment.

There you go again. Another judgement! You seem to be getting quite good at this.

As well you should. If we aren't qualified to judge one another, then what is the meaning of "Wherefore by their fruits shall ye know them"? This clearly implies that you are able to judge the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, etc. If not, then this passage from Matthew is meaningless.

This post started with a reference to Nigerian scam artists. Would you say their fruit is good? Bad? What's that? You say you don't know? Then I can give you a really sweet deal on a house in a prime location in the 1600 block of Pennsylvania Avenue. Just send me ten grand (cash, please) and I'll send you the deed. Honest!

There's a woman in my office. An intelligent, educated woman. A bit older than I. A Buddhist, I think. She told me not long ago that we have no need of a military.

And what if we are invaded by people who start killing all of us, I asked.

"Oh," she said. "It doesn't matter because we all eventually get to heaven anyway."

Some folks are just so open-minded that their brains go out for the occasional stroll.

This nice lady is a cuckoo. (Oops! Another judgement on my part.)

Kevin, you are just as judgmental as am I. The difference between us is that you can't see it.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it.

Sorry, I never touch the stuff.

And now, for the answer to the question:

I am uncontrollably slaphappy at the anticipation of hearing your perspective on this.

The newspapers would have you believe the gentleman was fired. He wasn't. No one has been fired. He's on administrative leave and drawing full (six-figure) salary.

He's eligible to retire, will probably do so eventually and will receive his full retirement benefits when he does.

His supervisor resigned. His supervisor's supervisor is on administrative leave (which means he's still being paid).

And how do I know this? Because I work at the VA. I know the man. I work on the same floor, but not in the same office.

[Joe 1320]

Let's call this one done...............