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  • article on why the new camaro will fail

    Why the New Camaro Will Fail
    By Eric Peters
    Published 6/20/2006 12:07:16 AM


    Watching Ford bathe in the glory of its resurgent, retro-style Mustang has surely been agonizing for General Motors -- as well as deja vu all over again.

    Back in 1964, when the first Mustang appeared, GM also had to stand there empty handed, with nothing to offer customers but fumbling excuses -- and promises that something was in the works. Three years later, in 1967, the first Camaro finally appeared. It was a good-looking car and did well. But the Mustang had a critical three-year head start. Camaro was caught playing catch-up. It had some good years -- especially in the mid-late 1970s and through the 1980s, when Tuned Port Injection IROC-Zs were as common as Ocean Pacific shorts and boom boxes as street performers -- but faltered badly in the 1990s after a not-so-hot restyle.

    Sales drooped to unsustainable levels within a few years and GM eventually cancelled the Camaro (and its sheetmetal sister, the Pontiac Firebird) after the 2002 model year.

    Now GM is frantically rushing an all-new Camaro to market, perhaps as soon as 2007. The news has been accompanied by great fanfare and hagiographical commentary in the motor press -- the same way news that Pontiac would be bringing back the GTO ginned up much tub-thumping and happy scribbling back in 2003. (Much of this rah-rahing issued from the pens and laptops of over-40 guys who could remember the good old days when obstreperous V-8 muscle cars prowled the streets -- and pined for their youthful days-gone-by returning.)

    But the revived GTO died quickly and quietly -- despite heroic horsepower numbers and better performance than any classic-era GTO ever delivered. Some of us saw it coming from the get-go.

    The new Camaro will probably die on the vine for the same reasons -- and a couple of new ones, too.

    And again, it's not all that hard to understand why. Or to see the iceberg dead ahead.

    Unlike the Mustang -- which has always managed to appeal to a broad base of buyers ranging from young women to old men and everyone in between -- the Camaro is and always has been a strutting muscle machine. A car for drive-throughs, Friday night cruising, and teenage boys.

    That works fine when it's 1969 -- and young, single guys can still afford to buy (and insure) such a car. It doesn't work so well in today's hamstrung, hyper-regulated and cost-inflated world. Part of what killed the latter-day GTO was its $30k price point. The young (under 30) guys who might want such a car couldn't afford it -- and the older guys who could had grown up. They wanted something less goofy. So did their wives. The same problem will surely beset the coming Camaro -- unless GM, by some miracle of Enron-esque accounting, figures out a way to sell the thing for less than $25,000.

    And that still leaves the insurance issue. (Will GM offer to cover the nut?) And the reality that the market slice for cars of this type has become narrower than Paris Hilton's waistline. Ford has already vacuumed up a goodly chunk of the prospective buyers. Import sport compacts will prove stiff competition for the remainder. How many new Camaros must GM sell to make the project economically viable? And how hard will that be given the late start, limited buyer pool -- and the very real danger of $3 per gallon (or more) fuel? A 15 mpg V-8 muscle car in a world of $70 fill-ups is apt to be about as popular as Hummers and Navigators and Excursions -- sheetmetal Brontosauri that face extinction (or at least, massive discounting just to get them off dealers' lots).

    These are daunting challenges.

    But the thing that will drive a stake through the new Camaro's hood, deep into its small-block heart, is the polarizing, hyper-macho cod piece styling. If the production car ends up looking like the show car that's been in every buff magazine and all over the news, it will be the belly flop heard 'round the world.

    The enduring genius of Ford's Mustang is that it transcends testosterone -- and the muscle car era. Fitted with a hi-po engine and stripes, it's a car that guys absolutely love. But it doesn't alienate women -- and women are half the market, don't forget (and most guys have a woman in their lives who they'd prefer not to annoy with their choice of car). The previous generation (1994-2002) Camaro was an "in your face" kind of car -- and so is this new one. You either love it -- or you hate it. And the question is, can GM afford such a confrontational machine with inherently limited appeal -- one that's already hobbled by being late to the game, fighting for a relatively small subset of prospective buyers and which will likely arrive just in time for the next ugly uptick in gas prices?

    The smart money (or mine, at least) says don't bet the farm on it.

    It's 2007 -- not 1967.

    Like a botox'd, aerobicized, fish-netted Cher crooning on the mothballed battleship Iowa, you can sing longingly about turning back time all you like. Actually doing it, of course, is a tougher thing to engineer.


    Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: Cars We Love to Hate (MBI).

    The Goldens: Reno and Rocky

    2008 C6, M6, LS3, Corsa Extreme C/B, (it flys) & 2008 Yukon loaded (Titanic), 03 Ford Focus..everydaydriver.

    Wolfdog Rescue Resources, Inc.:http://www.wrr-inc.org
    Home Page: http://www.renokeo.com
    sold: 97 Firehawk, 97 Comp T/A, 2005 GTO, 2008 Solstice GXP turbo.

  • #2
    You can tell he is a Ford guy but he does have some points with $-point of the car and the timing of the cars launch.

    Also what Ford did in the 80's with the mustang (a car that I can't stand the look of) was deliver the mustang brand to people who would never dream of buying a pony or muscle car and get the brand to more people. Then they restyled it and it was a hit, with the latest restyling they improve on the performance of the car while not alienating there customers.

    With GM it seems that there actions are only a reaction to what the competition is doing. His point of view is semi flawed though, if you look at the other North American manufacturer they target to the male consumer and do VERY WELL.

    Will the new Camaro be a car my mom wants..no but is that a bad thing?
    94 Formula Firebird, 355, heads port and polished, cc503 cam, 30# injectors, PCMforless Tune, B&M 2400 stall, K&N CAI, BBK Sorty Headers, Magnaflow Highflow Cat, Borla Catback exhaust with electronic cutout.

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    • #3
      Man, you guys must have terrible taste in women. My girlfriend loves sports cars and muscle cars. If I told her I was buying the new Camaro, she'd probably be more excited than I would!
      Red 95 Trans Am: M6, Moroso CAI, Magnaflow, Spohn sway bars, back to life as of 2/15/10!!!
      SOLD- Kinda miss it
      94 Del Sol VTEC: 27 city/ 33 highway, knee deep in slowness
      SOLD- Good riddance!
      2006 Ford Fusion: 2.3, 5 speed, could run 15lbs of boost with a 150 shot and it'd still be slow

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      • #4
        The camaro will survive only oif its V6 model sells big. Sales numbers for the V8 model are nowhere near enough to justify production.

        That being said... Ask yourself who exactly buys the V6 cars? Not the members of these online enthusiast forums! I'll tell you who buys them... the average consumer, half of which are women and guys not interested in hot rodding around.

        Now, look at the trands in cars of late. "Cute" is selling well. The sport compacts are all "cute" and non-threatening looking. The new Mustang is somewhat sedan-ish and non-threatening.

        The opposite of "cute" is "macho". Macho is not cool right now with the main stream. I drive my Z in a very liberal touchy-feely town and I rarely get a second look. My macho Z28 intimidates the crap out of the average folks. The fact it is a convertible helps soften it a little, but it is still too macho to be cool.

        Will a high priced macho new camaro sell? Who will buy the V6 cars that will need to sell in order to sustain the model? Maybe if the copy Dodge's advertising campaign and have commercials touting how tough it looks... I dont know. We'll have to wait and see, But I am skepticle. The love of the enthusiasts will not be enough to float the boat.
        Tracy
        2002 C5 M6 Convertible
        1994 Z28 M6 Convertible
        Current Mods:
        SLP Ultra-Z functional ramair, SS Spoiler, STB, SFCs, Headers, Clutch, Bilstein Shocks, and TB Airfoil. 17x9 SS rims with Goodyear tires, 160F T-Stat, MSD Blaster Coil, Taylor wires, Hurst billet shifter, Borla catback with QTP e-cutout, Tuned PCM, 1LE Swaybars, 1LE driveshaft, ES bushings, White gauges, C5 front brakes, !CAGS, Bose/Soundstream audio, CST leather interior, synthetic fluids

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TraceZ
          The camaro will survive only oif its V6 model sells big. Sales numbers for the V8 model are nowhere near enough to justify production.

          That being said... Ask yourself who exactly buys the V6 cars? Not the members of these online enthusiast forums! I'll tell you who buys them... the average consumer, half of which are women and guys not interested in hot rodding around.

          Now, look at the trands in cars of late. "Cute" is selling well. The sport compacts are all "cute" and non-threatening looking. The new Mustang is somewhat sedan-ish and non-threatening.

          The opposite of "cute" is "macho". Macho is not cool right now with the main stream. I drive my Z in a very liberal touchy-feely town and I rarely get a second look. My macho Z28 intimidates the crap out of the average folks. The fact it is a convertible helps soften it a little, but it is still too macho to be cool.

          Will a high priced macho new camaro sell? Who will buy the V6 cars that will need to sell in order to sustain the model? Maybe if the copy Dodge's advertising campaign and have commercials touting how tough it looks... I dont know. We'll have to wait and see, But I am skepticle. The love of the enthusiasts will not be enough to float the boat.
          Your Camaro is still cool alright. Cute cars and Scion Xbs might be popular, but it doesn't make them cool, just like rap might entertain a big chunk of the public, but nomatter how popular it gets, it will never be good music. Cool has never been about what's popular or mainstream because if everybody drove a Camaro or rode a Harley, how special would that be???, just about what's a little out of the reach of practical folks stuck in a hum-drum lyfestyle. Something capable of breaking laws, a little dangerous, built to be tough and fast, sleek & stylish - you know - COOL!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Quick story pertaining to this subject...

            My Aunt called me at work all excited last week. My younger cousin (21) just bought her first brand new car. Turns out it was a Mustang. My Aunt said "Now you have some competition for nicest car in the driveway at family gatherings". Come to find out, it's a V6.

            I wasn't about to steal her thunder on buying her first new car, so I just said "Looks that way. Tell her I said congrats".

            Later that night, I stopped by my Parents house. My Dad comes out and says "Hey, did you hear your cousin figured out how to make a Mustang even slower?"

            I guess my point is, the enthusiasts always know what's what.
            SOLD: 2002 Trans Am WS.6 - Black on Black - 6 Speed
            SLP Loudmouth Exhaust
            17K Miles

            2005 Acura TL - Silver on Black
            Navigation - Surround Audio - Bluetooth

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            • #7
              In a couple of years I don't know if you'll even be able to get a Mustang GT for $25,000. (I assume he's talking about the V8 version) GM has stated that the price will be competitive with the Mustang. I don't know if that means a few hundred dollars, but it should offer more car for your money.

              I don't know how this guy calls himself an automotive journalist. Factory Camaro's haven't gotten 15mpg since at least 1992. I suppose if you flog it within an inch of it's life it might. I'd add that the Camaro was very competitive in fuel milage..even a leader in that category right up to the end of production!

              The story of the very slow sales of the last years of the 4th gen cannot be blamed on any one thing. If anything though, I'd say the main reason was that the styling updates didn't keep pace with other offerings. It was in 2002 basically the same car it was in 1993.

              This new car may correct a lot of the failings of the 4th gen however. Despite any one person's opinion, styling has been a draw for this car. You can see the hood from the driver's seat, it's a lot shorter, and driver position, entry, and exit should be much more easy going. It will continue to have class leading performance and a budget price.

              If anything the Mustang has proved that a RWD V8 coupe can succeed in the market place. After reading the article I can only conclude that he thingks the car will not succeed for no better reason than the fact that it's attached to the name "Camaro". I suppose if you always bet on the status quo you can side with this guy. I'd prefer to think that things can change and maybe even improve.
              Joe K.
              '11 BMW 328i
              '10 Matrix S AWD
              Previously: '89 Plymouth Sundance Turbo, '98 Camaro V6, '96 Camaro Z28, '99 Camaro Z28, '04 Grand Prix GTP

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd take macho over cute any day...

                What's wrong with consumers now and days?

                Christopher Teng

                1999 · A4 · 3.73's · Auburn LSD · Whisper Lid · K&N · Pacesetter Headers/Y-pipe
                Magnaflow Cat & Catback · MSD Coils/Wires · Bosch +4 Plugs · EGR Bypass
                B&M SuperCooler · 160* Stat · Descreened MAF · SLP CAI · BMR STB & SFC
                Strano Sways · Eibach Springs · Bilstein HD Shocks · Hawk-Pads · Brembo Blanks
                Speedlines · Nitto 555s · Texas Speed Mail Tune

                Lots of Weight Savings · Stubby Antenna · Corbeau TRS · Zaino · 273K

                F-Body Dirty Dozen

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kevin - Blown 95 TA
                  just about what's a little out of the reach of practical folks stuck in a hum-drum lyfestyle. Something capable of breaking laws, a little dangerous, built to be tough and fast, sleek & stylish - you know - COOL!!!
                  So, if the V6 model has 220 hp, gets 30+ MPG and is priced so that the "practical folks stuck in hum-drum lifestyles" can afford it, maybe it has a chance.

                  I'd like to see it sell for a few hundred less than a comperably equipped Mustang. The slightly lower price, in conjunction with an excellent advertising campaign just might be enough to pump some life into the sales of the new car.
                  Tracy
                  2002 C5 M6 Convertible
                  1994 Z28 M6 Convertible
                  Current Mods:
                  SLP Ultra-Z functional ramair, SS Spoiler, STB, SFCs, Headers, Clutch, Bilstein Shocks, and TB Airfoil. 17x9 SS rims with Goodyear tires, 160F T-Stat, MSD Blaster Coil, Taylor wires, Hurst billet shifter, Borla catback with QTP e-cutout, Tuned PCM, 1LE Swaybars, 1LE driveshaft, ES bushings, White gauges, C5 front brakes, !CAGS, Bose/Soundstream audio, CST leather interior, synthetic fluids

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                  • #10
                    I hope they fix some of the bad designs that mine has like the power window motors, low coolant sensor, OPTI crap is already gone, body panels that don't line up, oh and are they still using the 10 bolt that should have been gone at the latest 1993.

                    I went to replace my dash lights a couple of weeks ago. To change a bulb I had to take off the lower dash, radio bezel, t-tops, a pillar covers, upper dash which broke coming out, mid dash, now I can get the instrument panel out. On my 85 Mustang I had to take 3 bolts and 4 screws that hold the dash in. That's it. Then you get into the bulbs. They are made into the housing and the books at every parts store is WRONG. They call for a 161 or 194. Well if you go buy a socket they will work but the stock lights are a PC161 which is made into the socket. How stupid is that.

                    I think GMs reputation will be why it fails.
                    2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning

                    1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD

                    A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"

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                    • #11
                      i dont understand. he's comparing the gto failing to the new camaro failing. That GTO failed for obvious reasons. the camaro is a fresh design, very nice. The GTO was a rebadged Holden, big difference. There was no real integrity put into that car. They used the GTO name to make the car sell. I wouldn't even call it a "GTO."

                      That new camaro isn't going to fail.
                      97 Chevy 'Raro Z28 M6- Ported & Polished LT1 heads,beehives,1.6/1.94 valves, 226/231 custom cam,K&N FIPK, 94-95 BBK shorty's,ORY,Magnaflow Catback,no cats,BMR LCA Relocation Brackets,Lower Control Arms,Adjustable Panhard Bar,Eibach Pro Kit,SPEC Stage 1,Walbro 255 Fuel Pump,30LB Injectors,Pro 5.0,Short stick,MSD 8.5's,NGK TR55's,LT4KM

                      01 Honda CBR600 F4i-Two bro's,Corbins,SS brake lines

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                      • #12
                        One of the big problems with our cars is getting in and out of them, the giant long doors, and putting people in the back seat. Not a problem for me, but then again, I never had the illusion that my TA was going to be practical. I can also afford 2 cars, which is almost a prequesite in this part of the country if you own a V8 f-body and don't want to call into work about 6 times per winter and don't mind driving it in the salt spray for 4 months. If they bring them back, your cars will all be devalued even further and the performance will seem sucky compared to the new one, so watch what you wish for, unless you're going to run out and buy one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by raroZ28
                          i dont understand. he's comparing the gto failing to the new camaro failing. That GTO failed for obvious reasons. the camaro is a fresh design, very nice. The GTO was a rebadged Holden, big difference. There was no real integrity put into that car. They used the GTO name to make the car sell. I wouldn't even call it a "GTO."

                          That new camaro isn't going to fail.
                          it may have "failed" in sales, but ive owned a ton of muscle cars in my life, and this is the most sophisticated, controllable, powerfull one ive ever driven.... flawless interior and ride is unsurpased. to gto owners.....they know.... and these cars are starting to get noticed... i like my set up with the sports appearance package and graphics i added, much better.....and new exhaust mod helps too..... and the fact that is a manaro in pontiac skin is awesome to me....cause the manaro is an awesome car.

                          The Goldens: Reno and Rocky

                          2008 C6, M6, LS3, Corsa Extreme C/B, (it flys) & 2008 Yukon loaded (Titanic), 03 Ford Focus..everydaydriver.

                          Wolfdog Rescue Resources, Inc.:http://www.wrr-inc.org
                          Home Page: http://www.renokeo.com
                          sold: 97 Firehawk, 97 Comp T/A, 2005 GTO, 2008 Solstice GXP turbo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Eric Peters is actually a die hard Pontiac fan. He is normally very unbiased in his articles just as he is in this one. He makes some very good points regarding the Mustang and concept Camaro.

                            Thing is, like he explains, is that the Mustang and Camaro are two different cars. For now let's set the 6 cylinders aside. That's a completely different market. From a marketing standpoint, the Mustang has always been designed to a appeal to a very widespread fan base. It's not too agressive to ward off the leary buyers, yet it is aggressive enough earn the muscle car badge. Because of this, Ford has obviously hit a home run for many ongoing years with the Mustang.

                            Again, from a marketing standpoint, GM has always designed the f-body to appeal more to a diehard muscle car enthusiast. In this one particular regard, I've always slightly liked the f-body styling better. Not to say I haven't liked the fox bodies and the new Mustangs. The new Roush editions look kick ass, and the Steeda and Foose editions are just plain sick. But, I like the distinguished look and sleek styling of the f-body.

                            That being said, I unfortunately forsee a dismal future of this Camaro especially if they keep the hideous chiseled spaceship-like body....and I pray they do something with that dash and instrumentation. The bling factor has to go.

                            I really would like to see GM keep afloat and do well with a new Camaro, but if it's going to sell, they have some work to do to the styling of the car and they had better find a way to keep it inexpensive.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Joe K. 99 Zeee!!
                              I don't know how this guy calls himself an automotive journalist. Factory Camaro's haven't gotten 15mpg since at least 1992. I suppose if you flog it within an inch of it's life it might. I'd add that the Camaro was very competitive in fuel milage..even a leader in that category right up to the end of production!
                              Heck my 5.7 liter 89 never got below 20mpg average.
                              Originally posted by raroZ28
                              i dont understand. he's comparing the gto failing to the new camaro failing. That GTO failed for obvious reasons. the camaro is a fresh design, very nice. The GTO was a rebadged Holden, big difference. There was no real integrity put into that car. They used the GTO name to make the car sell. I wouldn't even call it a "GTO."

                              That new camaro isn't going to fail.
                              Honestly though only people who are into cars know it was a holden, average joe dont know.

                              Eric W.

                              89 Firebird Formula WS6
                              Accel/Lingenfelter Super Ram
                              6.2L/382.97 ci
                              Custom PROM Dyno tuned
                              WCT-5 speed
                              BW 9-bolt Posi 3.45
                              Boss MS 18" Rims
                              Headman Headers 1 5/8 Ceramic Coated
                              Custom Dual exhaust
                              1LE upgrade
                              Custom Temperature / Navigation Rear View Mirror
                              In a constant state of upgrade!

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