Arizona Has To Be Kidding

[Injuneer]

Interesting case in NJ...... The Feds rounded up 35 illegal Indonesians and want to send them back. The local paper printed an article, and refered to the illegals as "fugitives". Now a local church is up in arms because they say the use of the word "fugitive" it too harsh. Their reasoning is that the people who were rounded up were members of a group that met regualrly at the local church, so they couldn't be "fugitives", evryone knew they were here. So much for the churches having any interest in enforcing the laws of this country.

Then..... the church members claim it would be criminal to deport the Indonesians to Indonesia, because many of the Indonesians have been here illegally for so long that they have children born here, and the children are US citizens. Hence, the children would be discriminated against in Indonesia, because Indonesian law prohibits the education and provision of social services to foreign citizens.

Maybe the Indonesian government is a lot smarter than ours.

[Steel2686]

Where exactly are you guys objecting to this?

Am I losing my mind, or does that article clearly state that they want to make the official language English?

So... where's the problem?

You don't see the clear problem here?

The problem is, why should they even HAVE to make the official language English??? Arizona is in our freakin' country!!! Of course English is the official language. The fact they are even discussing it is obscene.

[Joe 1320]

In my granparent's lifetime, America became the melting pot for the rest of the world. People wanted to get away from the opressive conditions in their countries and find a better life. Large pockets of foreigners settled in America and took pride in their new home..... enough pride to assimilate our culture and adopt it as their own. The same thing exists today, except the immigrants don't take pride in their new homeland, they don't want to assimilate our culture, the idea of nationalistic pride has gone to hell. It's all about the individual and what the country can do for them. While I know these statements don't pertain to every immigrant, it sure applies to the millions of illegals who won't adopt the American culture, they wish to feed off it and send their gains back to other countries. As painful as it is, ya better get used to it. Business owners do it in other countries. It happens in all countries at different levels, sometimes it's technology, sometimes it's money, sometimes it is merely goods. The illegals are here for money and services.

Get used to the idea of a total global mix. Eventually, the population will diversify and become more of a planet wide society rather than smaller groups of cultures. As long as everybody gets along, this is a good thing. The reality is that this will take centuries. So much can be learned from each other that the real crime of today's society even after thousands of years of recorded history people are still animals and can't resect each other. Imagine what kind of advancements in medicine, technology, etc. if the need for military spending was non existant. Until the day that the people of this planet begin to function as one large society of interdependant individuals who work toward a common goal of bettering the entire inhabitants of this chunk of rock that is spinning in space, All you're going to see is bickering, waste and pridefull actions. There needs to be a common world currency and a common world language. I can see that if we don't kill each other off, one day that will be a reality. You can't keep up fences for ever.

For the time being, America is indeed America. The official language vote should not have even come up. That's like saying that we should vote on the constitution. That was done a couple hundred years ago, who the hell is going to bring that up again? The official language of The United States of America is English and that's not the Queen's English either. If this country's government and it's citizens wish to stop fostering these issues, stop catering to other languages. Everything is getting printed in other languages. Why the heck are we doing that? One thing is for sure, if an immigrant wants handouts and services from this country, they should fill out the forms in ENGLISH. In reality, the situation exists because it was fostered by the powers that be. Now were trying to close the barn door after the horses got out. Makes you wonder how much bi-lingual stuff was paid by our tax dollars. And now they want to discourage it? LMAO!

Ya gotta love America. I do. But at the same time, I'm making it a point to learn some of every language. And since I am a citizen of the good old USA, I speak American English whenever possible. I love other languages and culture too, but again....... when in Rome....... It's funny when I'm standing in a checkout line and the two cashiers are speaking spanish, not thinking that the gringo in front of them can understand what they are saying.

Somehow, every society is going have to become tolerant and respectful of each other. If not, extiction is about all that's left. Some nutcase is going to push a button that will start this planet's life cycle all over again.


off my soapbox now.....

[Steel2686]

Good post, Joe. Well stated.

[TraceZ]

Joe -

Have you ever read Carl Sagan's Cosmos? Sagan said the same things about humanity. We may live to become interplanetary beings, or we may destroy ourselves before our technology gets that advanced. He made it his life work to educate humanity on all the different ways we could destroy ourselves, in an effort to prevent it.

There is a formula called the Drake Equation that is used to estimate the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy. One of the things the Drake equation takes into consideration is "How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia"?


http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Maybe the Indonesian government is a lot smarter than ours.

They aren't the only ones. Chili adopted our form of social security many years ago and have abandoned it because they said it would collapse. Our government can't figure that out either.

[Black97]

LMAO!

Seriously, I think this is a wonderful idea. Like Jeff mentioned ILLEGAL immigrants should not be entitled to State services in the first place.

Like I've said before, obtain your citizenship legally, pay taxes legally, pro-actively contribute to our economy, and learn English or get out.

Unfortunately that's just the way it has to be.

Before becoming a Canadian Citizen I had to see an immigration judge and have an interview. It could only be held in the two official languages, English and French.

So no speak Engy or Frenchy your no Canucky!

[fastTa]

You don't see the clear problem here?

The problem is, why should they even HAVE to make the official language English??? Arizona is in our freakin' country!!! Of course English is the official language. The fact they are even discussing it is obscene.

There is no problem Greg. What you don't understand is that there exists no "official" or more specifically a legislated United States language as of current. There have been many attempts and successions at minor linguistic legislation, but in many cases when the US revisited an attempt to legislate and thereby declare an official Country language, Congress has found it to be dangerously close to threatening individual liberties. But, times are a changing.

In the last 10 years the US has spent Billions more than previous decades on integrating other languages into our education system, transportation, multi-lingual ballots, multi-lingual documentation and owner's manuals, etc., etc. The multi-lingual trend is quickly becoming a nuisance and a real threat to the very fibers that bind this country together.

The time has come for us to pro-actively manage our linguistic diversity. I recently read that, according to the US Census Bureau, there is an estimated 392 languages spoken within the US. Staggering to say the least. Although the global linguistic assimilation of the English language is nothing new (it's the money language after all), it will still be a very very long time before you see a globally collective effort to ditch their native tongue.

"Global Mix" will never ever happen. Never. Mankind has been around for at least 7 million years, in accordance with the most recent archaeological finds of human remains, and Earth is still inhabited by thousands of diverse societies speaking nearly 7,000 actively used languages. It would take hundred's of thousands of years before we could even begin to conceive the notion that we would all be the same skin color, speak the same language, honor the same flag, and obey the laws of the same government.....and let me tell you folks, the planet we call Earth will not be around that long

The US needs a pro-active and lawfully managed language policy. Now more than ever we need a comprehensive plan for managing language resources and ensuring language rights. It gets complicated, but Arizona is on the right track.

[Joe 1320]

Joe -

Have you ever read Carl Sagan's Cosmos? Sagan said the same things about humanity. We may live to become interplanetary beings, or we may destroy ourselves before our technology gets that advanced. He made it his life work to educate humanity on all the different ways we could destroy ourselves, in an effort to prevent it.

There is a formula called the Drake Equation that is used to estimate the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy. One of the things the Drake equation takes into consideration is "How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia"?


http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

I've known of him, but never came across any of his material. Thanks for the link! I've got some more reading to do! In my opinion, if we don't destroy ouselves, genetic evolution just might. One thing that will never change........ change is constant. What cannot adapt gets replaced by that which can.

[Joe 1320]

"Global Mix" will never ever happen. Never. Mankind has been around for at least 7 million years, in accordance with the most recent archaeological finds of human remains, and Earth is still inhabited by thousands of diverse societies speaking nearly 7,000 actively used languages. It would take hundred's of thousands of years before we could even begin to conceive the notion that we would all be the same skin color, speak the same language, honor the same flag, and obey the laws of the same government.....and let me tell you folks, the planet we call Earth will not be around that long

.

Acutually, it already existed until societies became more "civilized", intolerant of others, decided to put up borders, conquer other lands for supremacy, etc. and usually in the name of religion. Somewhere along the line, people decided to start claiming ownership of the land that they stand on. It was once said that people fighting about who's land it is can be compared to two fleas fighting over who owns the dog they both are feeding on. It has happened for as long as humans interacted with other humans, it just went a different direction when borders and "civilizations" came to be.

It very well may never become totally globalized as "civilizations" aren't tolerant of each other. There are too many egos and frankly, people just can't get along. The mix of cultures is impossible to stop. Genetics will see to that, so will booming populations.

[Steel2686]

There is no problem Greg. What you don't understand is that there exists no "official" or more specifically a legislated United States language as of current. There have been many attempts and successions at minor linguistic legislation, but in many cases when the US revisited an attempt to legislate and thereby declare an official Country language, Congress has found it to be dangerously close to threatening individual liberties. But, times are a changing.

You make a solid point, Kevin... And I can see exactly where you are coming from. I think the confusion was how I worded my last two postings. I didn't really go into detail. I'm not actually disagreeing with you.

The point I was making is, there should be no discussion on what language to make the official language. I realize there has never been a "set language", however, why should we even take into consideration the illegals? The article stated they want to make English the official languge. It should be they ARE making it the official language. At some point, we have to stop worrying about who's offended and who isn't. This is America. English is our spoken language. If you are illegal, you have no rights. In fact, to all the illegals out there... I hope we do offend you.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

It very well may never become totally globalized as "civilizations" aren't tolerant of each other. There are too many egos and frankly, people just can't get along. The mix of cultures is impossible to stop. Genetics will see to that, so will booming populations.

I have always said it will take an invasion from space to bring the Earth together. I know it sounds goofy or corny but think about that.

[Steel2686]

I have always said it will take an invasion from space to bring the Earth together. I know it sounds goofy or corny but think about that.

An alien invasion will never happen because I'm wearing my anti-abduction hat...

[fastTa]

The point I was making is, there should be no discussion on what language to make the official language. I realize there has never been a "set language", however, why should we even take into consideration the illegals? The article stated they want to make English the official languge. It should be they ARE making it the official language. At some point, we have to stop worrying about who's offended and who isn't. This is America. English is our spoken language. If you are illegal, you have no rights. In fact, to all the illegals out there... I hope we do offend you.

With that explanation, your perspective makes much more sense. And I agree, it shouldn't even come down to having to legislate this kind of thing, but unfortunately I think in this day and age we have to do so to send a message to all immigrants coming here illegally.

We could always strategically place explosives along the San Andreas fault and have a free scratchoff giveaway on the coastal edge of California and set 'em sailing!

[Jeff_in_Atl]

With that explanation, your perspective makes much more sense. And I agree, it shouldn't even come down to having to legislate this kind of thing, but unfortunately I think in this day and age we have to do so to send a message to all immigrants coming here illegally.

We could always strategically place explosives along the San Andreas fault and have a free scratchoff giveaway on the coastal edge of California and set 'em sailing!

I think we should mine the border. Take your chances now.