the 22nd

[wolfdogs]

of Aug.

are you concerned?

I am.

remember, what happend in England was orchastrated by 2nd and 3rd generation pakastanians....

we have alot of Iranians living in the U.S.

lot of speculation floating around the corners of DC offices right now... the talk is scary.

just dont be nieve.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Yes I am. I wonder if that was the target date for the foiled airline plot in Britain.

[TraceZ]

I'm worried too. I hope nothing terrible happens.

[Y2KHAWK]

Me too! Worried about some places more than others.

[Joe 1320]

I would like to drop 9 or 10 of those 21,000 lb MOAB bunker busters on Iran's nuclear playtoys on August 22nd. That's the only way we're going to stop nuclear material from being used as a terrorist's weapon, that regime is bent on destruction of those that don't subscibe to their way of life and thought.

People have to remember that as the world population grows, there are more smart people, more average people and more criminal deviants every day. Since the nutcase fanatics want to die for their religion, we should just hurry the process along so that they don't take others with them. It's a no win situation folks. We're too caught up in politics and fear to do what really needs to be done. The last two groups that were that bent on destruction of everyone around them had to be crushed with every bit of force that could be used. It took not one, but TWO atomic blasts to get Japan to cease. Imagine the implications had that not been done. The same with Nazi Germany. They took an incredible pounding, fighting down to the last. What would have happened if we were too politically correct, didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest and just let everything keep?

I can only see two scenios working. Send 100 million multinational troops with enough firepower to completely wipeout an area the size of the entire middle east and park them on Iran's boarders, give them one last chance to stop their sabre rattling or the rest of the world will do it for them. The other option is to discredit the entire movement in the eyes of their masses so that they take care of the problem before their beloved homeland is turned into a radioactive dustbowl. I doubt that the second option is going to happen, so prepare for big time problems.

[97 Zee]

This is just a little disturbing. http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768 It dosnt seem like a matter of "IF" somthing horrable will happen but "WHEN" it will happen.

[Black97]

I would like to drop 9 or 10 of those 21,000 lb MOAB bunker busters on Iran's nuclear playtoys on August 22nd. That's the only way we're going to stop nuclear material from being used as a terrorist's weapon, that regime is bent on destruction of those that don't subscibe to their way of life and thought.

I guess we should let the Israelis have a go at it. They destroyed a nuclear reactor in Iraq just before it was fueled. They snuck in there, dropped the bombs and flew out.

Saw a show about it a while back, was pretty interesting. They said that the Iraqi's would turn off their radar every Sunday whiched helped them to get in undetected.

Some info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak

[Mark B]

Is that true? Ahmadinejad has told us he will answer the nuclear question on Aug. 22nd??? WOW. Well, now I am worried too.

[Joe 1320]

This is just a little disturbing. http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768 It dosnt seem like a matter of "IF" somthing horrable will happen but "WHEN" it will happen.

You'll have to copy and paste in your browser to get to the above site. It goes along with what I stated above.

Here is a copy of the text:

"During the Cold War, both sides possessed weapons of mass destruction, but neither side used them, deterred by what was known as MAD, mutual assured destruction. Similar constraints have no doubt prevented their use in the confrontation between India and Pakistan. In our own day a new such confrontation seems to be looming between a nuclear-armed Iran and its favorite enemies, named by the late Ayatollah Khomeini as the Great Satan and the Little Satan, i.e., the United States and Israel. Against the U.S. the bombs might be delivered by terrorists, a method having the advantage of bearing no return address. Against Israel, the target is small enough to attempt obliteration by direct bombardment.

It seems increasingly likely that the Iranians either have or very soon will have nuclear weapons at their disposal, thanks to their own researches (which began some 15 years ago), to some of their obliging neighbors, and to the ever-helpful rulers of North Korea. The language used by Iranian President Ahmadinejad would seem to indicate the reality and indeed the imminence of this threat.

Would the same constraints, the same fear of mutual assured destruction, restrain a nuclear-armed Iran from using such weapons against the U.S. or against Israel?





There is a radical difference between the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments with nuclear weapons. This difference is expressed in what can only be described as the apocalyptic worldview of Iran's present rulers. This worldview and expectation, vividly expressed in speeches, articles and even schoolbooks, clearly shape the perception and therefore the policies of Ahmadinejad and his disciples.
Even in the past it was clear that terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam had no compunction in slaughtering large numbers of fellow Muslims. A notable example was the blowing up of the American embassies in East Africa in 1998, killing a few American diplomats and a much larger number of uninvolved local passersby, many of them Muslims. There were numerous other Muslim victims in the various terrorist attacks of the last 15 years.

The phrase "Allah will know his own" is usually used to explain such apparently callous unconcern; it means that while infidel, i.e., non-Muslim, victims will go to a well-deserved punishment in hell, Muslims will be sent straight to heaven. According to this view, the bombers are in fact doing their Muslim victims a favor by giving them a quick pass to heaven and its delights--the rewards without the struggles of martyrdom. School textbooks tell young Iranians to be ready for a final global struggle against an evil enemy, named as the U.S., and to prepare themselves for the privileges of martyrdom.

A direct attack on the U.S., though possible, is less likely in the immediate future. Israel is a nearer and easier target, and Mr. Ahmadinejad has given indication of thinking along these lines. The Western observer would immediately think of two possible deterrents. The first is that an attack that wipes out Israel would almost certainly wipe out the Palestinians too. The second is that such an attack would evoke a devastating reprisal from Israel against Iran, since one may surely assume that the Israelis have made the necessary arrangements for a counterstrike even after a nuclear holocaust in Israel.

The first of these possible deterrents might well be of concern to the Palestinians--but not apparently to their fanatical champions in the Iranian government. The second deterrent--the threat of direct retaliation on Iran--is, as noted, already weakened by the suicide or martyrdom complex that plagues parts of the Islamic world today, without parallel in other religions, or for that matter in the Islamic past. This complex has become even more important at the present day, because of this new apocalyptic vision.





In Islam, as in Judaism and Christianity, there are certain beliefs concerning the cosmic struggle at the end of time--Gog and Magog, anti-Christ, Armageddon, and for Shiite Muslims, the long awaited return of the Hidden Imam, ending in the final victory of the forces of good over evil, however these may be defined. Mr. Ahmadinejad and his followers clearly believe that this time is now, and that the terminal struggle has already begun and is indeed well advanced. It may even have a date, indicated by several references by the Iranian president to giving his final answer to the U.S. about nuclear development by Aug. 22. This was at first reported as "by the end of August," but Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement was more precise.
What is the significance of Aug. 22? This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world. It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for Aug. 22. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind.

A passage from the Ayatollah Khomeini, quoted in an 11th-grade Iranian schoolbook, is revealing. "I am decisively announcing to the whole world that if the world-devourers [i.e., the infidel powers] wish to stand against our religion, we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours."

In this context, mutual assured destruction, the deterrent that worked so well during the Cold War, would have no meaning. At the end of time, there will be general destruction anyway. What will matter will be the final destination of the dead--hell for the infidels, and heaven for the believers. For people with this mindset, MAD is not a constraint; it is an inducement.

How then can one confront such an enemy, with such a view of life and death? Some immediate precautions are obviously possible and necessary. In the long term, it would seem that the best, perhaps the only hope is to appeal to those Muslims, Iranians, Arabs and others who do not share these apocalyptic perceptions and aspirations, and feel as much threatened, indeed even more threatened, than we are. There must be many such, probably even a majority in the lands of Islam. Now is the time for them to save their countries, their societies and their religion from the madness of MAD."

This is why I say that it's obvious that they aren't going to deviate from their path of destroying anyone that doesn't comform to their ideology. Normally I am a peaceful person, but with Iran wanting to pick a fight with the rest of the us.........I say "Just bring it". But..... instead of them bringing it to us, the entire world of peace loving people needs to get off their hind ends and realize this a planet-wide problem, not just a schoolyard fight between two social groups and take overwhelming and swift action to prevent even larger losses on a global scale. Let's see them pick a fight after having their infrastructure and population numbers sent back into the era of the stone age.

It's a proven fact, time and time again that the only way to negotiate with a criminal is by doing so with an upper hand. Without that, there is no negotiation with a criminal.... they have nothing to lose.

[TraceZ]

remember the thread I started last week...

http://www.f-body.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17658

[wolfdogs]

just be ready. we are. i just hope i make it home if the chit hits the fan...... im right by the Potomac River (my office) i'll walk 50 miles back to stafford though.......

and i carry. all the time now.

[Black97]

WHat ever happened to the

[fastTa]

On the Islamic calendar, it is the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. Normally when the Muslims celebrate the night of the "flight" of the prophet Muhammad (12th Imam) on the "winged horse Buraq", it is a spirutual celebration and there normally isn't any violence provoked by this date, but............. with all that is going on in the Middle East right now who knows what the hell is going to happen.

I don't expect much to happen here in the US, but I sure as hell would not want to be anywhere near Israel on or around that date.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

WHat ever happened to the

It was replaced with, "Land of the Liberals. Please don't offend anyone."

[fastTa]

It was replaced with, "Land of the Liberals. Please don't offend anyone."

I knew you would be back!