Old School Comparison

[Christopherrr]

I found this link...back in 99' only real cars ran under 14 secs. Now and days, awd econos blows the doors off cars like ours now. Man...how times have changed...I need more mods.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...76.html?page=1

[Dave Vince]

Some guys are hung up on what you can buy from the factory performance.
Even the fastest car on that list, (the new 427 Vette was missing, its quicker than the Viper), stinks in drag strip performance per dollar.
I added a few performance parts to my 95Z and for less than 2k am quicker than all but the top few on that list.
I guarantee you for 25K I can build a NA street car that will kill any of those cars, even with the blowers and very high price tags some have.
My present project will run easy 9s on the motor and with exhaust and street tires would be a street car. I'll smoke a stock Viper like it had no wheels.
I guess the fascination with factory performance is the fact that few are able to build thier own effective car. They depend on the factory or someone else for thier performance.

[Talon04]

I'd be happy with the T/A they used, I need to start putting some money into my car.

[Steel2686]

Some guys are hung up on what you can buy from the factory performance.
Even the fastest car on that list, (the new 427 Vette was missing, its quicker than the Viper), stinks in drag strip performance per dollar.
I added a few performance parts to my 95Z and for less than 2k am quicker than all but the top few on that list.
I guarantee you for 25K I can build a NA street car that will kill any of those cars, even with the blowers and very high price tags some have.
My present project will run easy 9s on the motor and with exhaust and street tires would be a street car. I'll smoke a stock Viper like it had no wheels.
I guess the fascination with factory performance is the fact that few are able to build thier own effective car. They depend on the factory or someone else for thier performance.

I'd agree with that to a point.

However, there is another element associated with it. With me, I like having a really nice interior. Some older cars have very plain interiors, which is fine, but not what I'm really looking for. For instance, compare the interior of a C4 Vette to a C5 or C6... To the GTO even. There's just no comparison in my book.

Some will be perfectly happy with less "clutter" in the interior. Others (myself included) like having some bells and whistles to go along with performance. Of course, that all comes with a price tag.

[94Z/28]

Some guys are hung up on what you can buy from the factory performance.
Even the fastest car on that list, (the new 427 Vette was missing, its quicker than the Viper), stinks in drag strip performance per dollar.
I added a few performance parts to my 95Z and for less than 2k am quicker than all but the top few on that list.
I guarantee you for 25K I can build a NA street car that will kill any of those cars, even with the blowers and very high price tags some have.
My present project will run easy 9s on the motor and with exhaust and street tires would be a street car. I'll smoke a stock Viper like it had no wheels.
I guess the fascination with factory performance is the fact that few are able to build thier own effective car. They depend on the factory or someone else for thier performance.

I agree with what Greg said. Also, your "present project" may beat a Viper in a straight line, but what happens when the road curves? More than likely you become a speck in his rear view mirror. The fascination with factory performace is the abilitly to have a car with a good mix of straight line acceleration and good cornering all while doing it riding in a nice interior and with a warranty

[Christopherrr]

Some guys are hung up on what you can buy from the factory performance.
Even the fastest car on that list, (the new 427 Vette was missing, its quicker than the Viper), stinks in drag strip performance per dollar.
I added a few performance parts to my 95Z and for less than 2k am quicker than all but the top few on that list.
I guarantee you for 25K I can build a NA street car that will kill any of those cars, even with the blowers and very high price tags some have.
My present project will run easy 9s on the motor and with exhaust and street tires would be a street car. I'll smoke a stock Viper like it had no wheels.
I guess the fascination with factory performance is the fact that few are able to build thier own effective car. They depend on the factory or someone else for thier performance.

Granted, any modded car can beat a factory car. I understand that point. But this is back in 1999...where any car over 300hp and ran 13's was considered amazing and anything lower than 12's was incredible. Now, you got 4 cylinder sedans doing that. Also, with a factory car with performance out of the box, you always have room for gains in power and performance and still have drivability.

[Steel2686]

Also, with a factory car with performance out of the box, you always have room for gains in power and performance and still have drivability.

Excellent point... You're starting out with more base power.

I have the utmost respect for people who build and/or mod cars that can blow away some factory beasts. I'm just not ready to discount people's reasons for buying factory performance.

Our own Norm is a solid case and point... He had a perfectly fast C5 Z06. That wasn't enough. It had to be faster. He started out with one of the fastest cars available, and made it an outright whirling dervish.

Others like Fred, Joe, and Ken have done their share of modding to already fast factory cars. It's all preference (and sometimes, dollar amounts).

[Dave Vince]

Performance

There is no doubt in my mind I could build a car that could perform well in all areas of performance if I desired. Not just in a straight line. I have never been a road race enthusiast so the thought never crossed my mind. I do not need power windows, seats, steering, brakes or even an automatic for that matter.
My 95Z has all these things and I do not fault anyone who likes them. My statement is that if you have the ability you can have all these features with driveability for much less cost.
I purchased my 95 6 years ago for 5500. I recently personally rebuilt the motor, changed the cam, lifters, rings, bearings, starter, water pump, opti spark, coil, hoses etc. added MSD 8mm wire, roller rockers, underdrive pulley, shorty headers, port match, oversized valves, beehive springs and retainers, rear diff cover with brace. Had the transmission rebuilt and replaced the universal joints. This cost me about 3000 since I did all but the trans myself. The car picked up about .6 and 6 mph in the 1/8th for a 8.57 at 86mph. It still drives well and can still get 21 mpg on the highway. The idle is a little rough with the cam but you can't have everything. I have put 20K miles on the car since the rebuild and did not go further with it as these cars are bears to work on and the drive train is weak.
If I had the desire and these cars weren't so tough to work on, I would have built a twin turbo car that could run 5s in the 1/8th, high 8s in the 1/4 by replacing the complete drive train. As far as turning there are plenty of suspension components out there to make it handle and stop with any factory car. This could all have been done for about 25K, still much less than most new 13 second cars.
Since my goal is straight line grunt I bought a 68 Camaro that will be much quicker than any factory car can dream of being, and much easier to work on. The only turn I worry about is the turn down the return road. No it will not have power steering, seats, brakes, etc.
If you like twisty road courses thats great, but when is the last time anyone asked you how quick is your car is in a slalom, or how short a stopping distance do you have. Nobody has ever said that to me but I sure have been asked how quick/fast my car is, meaning 1/8th or 1/4 mile times.
That what makes my wheels turn, everybody has different likes and dislikes.
Whats your opinion?

[Steel2686]

I completely understand, Dave.

You could take your 95 Z/28 or 68 Camaro and have one fast straight liner. That's cool if that's what you're looking for. When I had my '02 WS6, I never took it to the track. I wanted to a few times, but I don't really live close enough to a track, plus I'm one to just enjoy a cruise more than anything.

That car, to me, handled really well. You're correct that no one ever asked me how fast my car is in the slalom, but it didn't stop a smile from forming on their face when I took them through the twisties.

I bought the Acura because of practicallity. I hated selling the T/A, but after spending some time inside the TL, I'm not nearly missing it as much as I thought I would. nowadays, a sports/luxury sedan is nearly as fast as a muscle car was 10 years ago. I think that was Chris' original point.

Believe me... I have total respect for any car that impresses. Any.

[Christopherrr]

nowadays, a sports/luxury sedan is nearly as fast as a muscle car was 10 years ago. I think that was Chris' original point.

My point exactly. Our cars just isn't as fast as they used to be in today's standards...but we can fix that with moddifications...I just prefer to have driveability and comfort to come along with the ride.

[Injuneer]

Much of the cost associated with "performance" cars you buy from a dealer is related to Federal regulations. They have to meet emissions standard, safety standards, fuel economy standards, and things that the average modified car can't come close to meeting. And they have to be capable of surviving the warranty period with minimal problems.

Here in NJ, even though my Formula was capable of meeting the emissions standards, in terms of tailpipe emissions, it is not "legal" because it contained parts that simply don't have the required emissions label on it. And, NJ is making the standards tighter, moving up to the CA standards.

I have a 500HP street car with another 300HP on tap by way of nitrous, but I can't drive it on the street for fear that one of the mobile DMV SWAT teams will catch me on a roadside check and impound my car. I'd much rather be driving a 505HP truely street legal Corvette. I don't dis anyone for wanting that kind of performance.

[Steel2686]

Much of the cost associated with "performance" cars you buy from a dealer is related to Federal regulations. They have to meet emissions standard, safety standards, fuel economy standards, and things that the average modified car can't come close to meeting. And they have to be capable of surviving the warranty period with minimal problems.

This is a solid thread.

Great points, Fred. Warranty and longevity are major contributors to pricing. Warranty was a factor in why I purchased a newer car. Sure, I could have bought a four or five year old car in nice shape, but without a warranty, I wouldn't have piece of mind. Even if I did the repair myself, parts alone would cost a ridiculous amount.

[Joe 1320]

I've gone though the cycle too many times. Get a new factory hot rod, throw a bunch of mods at it until it borders on insanity, then start over on the next car that you promise yourself to leave it stock. I'm not doing that any more. It's just too costly to do that with newer cars just for the purpose of speed. If all I want to do is go fast, I can build something a mucho cheaper. The only reason for me to buy something new is if I planned to drive a crapload of miles and wanted a 100K mile warranty and some peace of mind.
Even then, one is still better off getting one that is just under 3 years instead of brand new. There are provisions that allow you to purchase the extended warranty right up until the time the factory one expires.

[Steel2686]

I've gone though the cycle too many times. Get a new factory hot rod, throw a bunch of mods at it until it borders on insanity, then start over on the next car that you promise yourself to leave it stock. I'm not doing that any more. It's just too costly to do that with newer cars just for the purpose of speed. If all I want to do is go fast, I can build something a mucho cheaper. The only reason for me to buy something new is if I planned to drive a crapload of miles and wanted a 100K mile warranty and some peace of mind.
Even then, one is still better off getting one that is just under 3 years instead of brand new. There are provisions that allow you to purchase the extended warranty right up until the time the factory one expires.

Exactly what my thinking was.

I got the TL with 20K on the odometer, and paid 12,000 less than the original purchase price. The kicker is that Acura gives a 4 year/60K warranty. I extended the Bumper to Bumper coverage to 6 years/100K miles. The first owner took an absolute beating on the price.

[Joe 1320]

Exactly what my thinking was.

I got the TL with 20K on the odometer, and paid 12,000 less than the original purchase price. The kicker is that Acura gives a 4 year/60K warranty. I extended the Bumper to Bumper coverage to 6 years/100K miles. The first owner took an absolute beating on the price.

That's the ticket right there. I see that Acura in your sig about every day, that's a nice ride. I could see myself using that as a daily commuter, keeping my other playtoys for leisure.