Energy independence . . . and hungry Mexicans

[Roger in Kensington]

You're probably already aware of this, but a front page article in today's (Jan. 27) issue of The Washington Post describes how the price of corn tortillas -- a staple in the diet among poor Mexicans -- has soared because of increased ethanol production.

Corn (among other things) is used to produce ethanol here in the United States. Our Congress -- under pressure from Midwest farmers and such agricultural interests as the Archer Daniels Midland Corporation -- has mandated that ethanol be used as an additive in gasoline to "reduce our dependence on foreign oil."

An admirable goal, but with unintended consequences. Using corn to produce ethanol has -- as predicted by myself (in an earlier post) and others -- has raised the price of corn. This is good for Midwest farmers and Archer Daniels Midland. Not so good, though, for eaters of corn-fed beef, drinkers of bourbon . . . or poor Mexicans who depend upon tortillas for food.

The Post article states that tortilla prices have tripled or quadrupled in some parts of Mexico, prompting the Mexican government to implement price controls on tortillas.

As with all such measures to control prices (the price of corn -- as well as oil -- is determined by the world market) this will inevitably lead to shortages making the situation worse. Tortillas will be cheap . . . when they are available.

Worse, as we have discussed on this board, ethanol produced from corn results in an overall increase in energy use.

This situation may be somewhat alleviated if and when a cheap and energy-efficient method (such as with biotechnology) of producing ethanol from materials other than grain is developed.

But if such a method is developed, what do you suppose will be the reaction of Midwest farmers and the Archer Daniels Midland Corporation?

[ryan34]

I know this is kinda off topic, but if they make the e85 capable vehicles run on just e85 (rather than being gas or e85) they can make them more efficient. This would be done by increasing the compression to to make full benefit of the increase octane capabilities of ethanol. Right? If not i'll keep my mouth shut

[Joe 1320]

Oh no..... there goes Ken's Taco Bell habit.

[Roger in Kensington]

I know this is kinda off topic, but if they make the e85 capable vehicles run on just e85 (rather than being gas or e85) they can make them more efficient. This would be done by increasing the compression to to make full benefit of the increase octane capabilities of ethanol. Right? If not i'll keep my mouth shut

Actually, I think it's a great question, but I don't know the answer. If so, I wonder if they would be able to meet emission standards.

Someone with more knowledge than I have will need to answer.

Oh, and this from Saturday's Wall Street Journal.

[wolfdogs]

Oh no..... there goes Ken's Taco Bell habit.

actually, i have not eaten fast food in over 6 years now...... it was all a joke.

[wolfdogs]

I know this is kinda off topic, but if they make the e85 capable vehicles run on just e85 (rather than being gas or e85) they can make them more efficient. This would be done by increasing the compression to to make full benefit of the increase octane capabilities of ethanol. Right? If not i'll keep my mouth shut

http://e85vehicles.com/

[2Fbodcru]

Ok, I just have to chime in here; lets see, lots of hungry Mexicans, eating Mexican food, ultimately creating a very good fuel source in the form of methane (think about it). What they need to do, is build a domed city large enough to hold all of the illegals that have come here from Mexico. Round up the illegals, put them in the city, and feed them all of the Mexican food that they can hold - let nature take it’s course, and collect all of the gas straight out of the top of the dome.
I would have say that we are going about it the wrong way by using up all of the corn for ethanol production - instead, we should use it to produce methanol (by way of Mexican food and flatulence), and we can also conquer at least part of the Mexican hunger problem, all in one fail swoop

Of course I am not absolutely sure that you can produce methanol from methane, but I believe that you can

[Roger in Kensington]

Of course I am not absolutely sure that you can produce methanol from methane, but I believe that you can

In fact, you can. Oil and gasoline, too. It's called the Fischer-Tropsch process. And when you consider that in addition to the existing proven reserves of natural gas (i.e., methane -- even discounting those amounts available from His Lupineness's late-night forays to Taco Bell) there is -- according to the Department of Energy -- more than 72,000 times as much available in known methane hydrate deposits in the waters right off our coasts.

That's enough methane for many thousands of years to come.

Who needs Taco Bell under those circumstances?

[ryan34]

In fact, you can. Oil and gasoline, too. It's called the Fischer-Tropsch process. And when you consider that in addition to the existing proven reserves of natural gas (i.e., methane -- even discounting those amounts available from His Lupineness's late-night forays to Taco Bell) there is -- according to the Department of Energy -- more than 72,000 times as much available in known methane hydrate deposits in the waters right off our coasts.

That's enough methane for many thousands of years to come.

Who needs Taco Bell under those circumstances?

So why is methane not used more often in power production?

[Roger in Kensington]

So why is methane not used more often in power production?

If I understand correctly, the majority of new powerplants use natural gas instead of oil or coal, in part because of cost, but largely to meet emission standards.

You could power cars with methane, but liquid fuels are energetically more "concentrated" besides being easier to store (no need for heavy pressurized containers) and transport.

[Rhode Island Red]

Methane is not used or will be used because one of the by-products of burning methane is CO2 aka Carbon Dioxide aka the Planet warmer aka green house gas

- was in the news the other day

[Roger in Kensington]

Methane is not used or will be used because one of the by-products of burning methane is CO2 aka Carbon Dioxide aka the Planet warmer aka green house gas

- was in the news the other day

And what is the by-product of burning (and producing) ethanol?

[2Fbodcru]

The most ideal fuel in my opinion is water. When the hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms are separated, and then ignited, you get a very volatile reaction. After combustion, it turns back into water, so it's clean burning to say the least. Many people are experimenting with it now, and believe me, it is volatile. I got into researching it and experimenting with it back in May of last year, and in this video on Google, that I uploaded soon after I started experimenting with it, you can see how explosive it can be, even from a simple primitive set up. I have since dramatically improved my “design”, but haven’t been able to get back to it to finish it. I truly believe in this potential fuel source though, but some naysayers say it’s not possible to make water fuel viable