A question to get you thinking.

[thenuge876]

So I was throwing around some engineering design project ideas with a team at my college here, and keep in mind this is not something we would have to build, just design, and it came up about creating a system for vehicles that would basically be a remote braking system. Such a system could possibly be impolyed by law inforcement in high speed chase situations. I was wondering what you all thought might need to go into such a design. It was just something we were thinking of doing, so any input would be great, or any other ideas too would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Dave-S]

I doubt that anything like that would be accepted too well by the public at large. Plus, the potential safety issues may be difficult to overcome and if it were ever to result in death or injuries the lawyers would have a field day with it as well.

I would think that an "ignition disabler" or a "fuel shutoff" would be a much simpler thing to accomplish and would ultimately acheive the same thing. Unfortunately, this would also have similar public acceptance issues as well as potential law suits. And if law enforcement could cause your car to brake or shut off remotely, I don't think it would be long before criminals would figure out to develop and use systems like that too.........and that would be very very bad.

[Mark B]

Kind of off topic... But I have always wanted a way to "tag" drivers who do stupid things when there are no cops around. Basicly...

Anytime someone cuts you off, is weaving in and out of traffic, driving on the shoulder, etc. You can somehow "mark" the exterior of that car. The "mark will only last 24 hours before it disappears. Now when a cop sees a car with 3 or more marks on it, he pulls them over and gives them a ticket for being an a$$. Im sure you could use a system similar to "laser tag" to do the marking.

Do you think that would change the behavior of alot of drivers? haha

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Kind of off topic... But I have always wanted a way to "tag" drivers who do stupid things when there are no cops around. Basicly...

Anytime someone cuts you off, is weaving in and out of traffic, driving on the shoulder, etc. You can somehow "mark" the exterior of that car. The "mark will only last 24 hours before it disappears. Now when a cop sees a car with 3 or more marks on it, he pulls them over and gives them a ticket for being an a$$. Im sure you could use a system similar to "laser tag" to do the marking.

Do you think that would change the behavior of alot of drivers? haha

Ha ha ha! We have talked about that too. We thought about using dart guns with the suction cop darts. Someone with 3 darts gets pulled over for being a bad driver.

[Mark B]

Hmm... Maybe this is where I got the idea from.


(Note to self... Stop drinking so heavily on the weekends)

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Kind of off topic... But I have always wanted a way to "tag" drivers who do stupid things when there are no cops around. Basicly...

Anytime someone cuts you off, is weaving in and out of traffic, driving on the shoulder, etc. You can somehow "mark" the exterior of that car. The "mark will only last 24 hours before it disappears. Now when a cop sees a car with 3 or more marks on it, he pulls them over and gives them a ticket for being an a$$. Im sure you could use a system similar to "laser tag" to do the marking.

Do you think that would change the behavior of alot of drivers? haha

Haha, that sounds pretty funny and cool, but I know it probably would never happen. There would always be a bunch of punks who would ruin it and mark every car they see, just because they'd think it's "funny." It's too bad, because some people always have to ruin good ideas

[Joe 1320]

In my area, the police are fighting back. There are unmarked vehicles everywhere. So far thse last 3 weeks I've seen unmarked Ford Taurus, Crown vic, economy cars, F-150 and 250 trucks, SUVs, Minivans as well as Chevy Impalas, Tahoes, 2500 pickups, and so on. Every day I see at least 3 or 4 on the side of the road with lights flashing writing up another motorist on my 10 mile drive to work, the same thing on the ride home. They are everywhere.

[Joe 1320]

IMHO, It's a piece of cake creating a brake by wire system just like what is done with the throttle. Getting the software to work should be no problem. However.......

In brake systems there should always be a backup. Now in case of loss of electrical power, you still need a way to stop the vehicle and that means a mechanical method. That in itself would lend an easy way to disable the system. Pull the fuse to stop electrical power and you still have brakes. So that's not going to work well for that purpose.

In order to use it in the way you intend, a complete new system would have to be engineered into the fray, most likely an add on unit for just such a purpose. Now you get into the legal aspects of whether the politicians would let that happen, there are also the added costs of adding another complete system.

Adding a control valve similar to a line lock would be ideal. The easiest way to engage the brakes is by the operator's foot. No matter what happens, when someone gets behind the wheel the brakes are going to get used at some point. Install the electrically operated valve and add a control box that receives signals just like Onstar. As long as no signal transmitted, the valve does nothing and stays open and fluid flows both ways. As soon as a signal is received, the valve closes in one direction..... the return. As soon as the brake pedal is depressed, the hydraulic fluid operates the brakes, the return is blocked so the brakes don't release. It won't release until the proper signal is transmitted and the valve is turned off. That should work just fine.

[LS1 TA]

I doubt that anything like that would be accepted too well by the public at large. Plus, the potential safety issues may be difficult to overcome and if it were ever to result in death or injuries the lawyers would have a field day with it as well.

I would think that an "ignition disabler" or a "fuel shutoff" would be a much simpler thing to accomplish and would ultimately acheive the same thing. Unfortunately, this would also have similar public acceptance issues as well as potential law suits. And if law enforcement could cause your car to brake or shut off remotely, I don't think it would be long before criminals would figure out to develop and use systems like that too.........and that would be very very bad.

Doesn't the GM onstar system have something that works similar to this if your car is stolen?

[thenuge876]

IMHO, It's a piece of cake creating a brake by wire system just like what is done with the throttle. Getting the software to work should be no problem. However.......

In brake systems there should always be a backup. Now in case of loss of electrical power, you still need a way to stop the vehicle and that means a mechanical method. That in itself would lend an easy way to disable the system. Pull the fuse to stop electrical power and you still have brakes. So that's not going to work well for that purpose.

In order to use it in the way you intend, a complete new system would have to be engineered into the fray, most likely an add on unit for just such a purpose. Now you get into the legal aspects of whether the politicians would let that happen, there are also the added costs of adding another complete system.

Adding a control valve similar to a line lock would be ideal. The easiest way to engage the brakes is by the operator's foot. No matter what happens, when someone gets behind the wheel the brakes are going to get used at some point. Install the electrically operated valve and add a control box that receives signals just like Onstar. As long as no signal transmitted, the valve does nothing and stays open and fluid flows both ways. As soon as a signal is received, the valve closes in one direction..... the return. As soon as the brake pedal is depressed, the hydraulic fluid operates the brakes, the return is blocked so the brakes don't release. It won't release until the proper signal is transmitted and the valve is turned off. That should work just fine.

Thanks Joe, I really appreciate the input from everyone, the issues you guys ahd were some of the same that we came up with as well. I was just wondering if it might be possible to deisgn such a system. The politics and all that are not really an issue since we aren't presenting it for manufacturing just maybe showing how such a thing could potentially work. I like the "tagging" ieda too...it's always good when someone does something inconsiderate while driving and a couple miles up the road you see justice getting served. Any other thoughts would be rgeat, and thanks again.

[Mark B]

Joe 1320,
In addition to your system.. You would need to make it so the brake lights stay lit even after the brake pedal is released. Otherwise you could possibly have a car coming to a quick stop without any brake lights... Very bad for the motorists behind them. haha Definitly could work though

[Joe 1320]

Joe 1320,
In addition to your system.. You would need to make it so the brake lights stay lit even after the brake pedal is released. Otherwise you could possibly have a car coming to a quick stop without any brake lights... Very bad for the motorists behind them. haha Definitly could work though

good call. In theory, the brake pedal would not raise if the hydraulics are locked down. Could be wrong, someone should experiment.

[thenuge876]

How about this for a safety factor too. If the valve or pedal, or whatever the final design is that got actuated is set off by a radio signal, what if the sender also had to send something like the VIN or other unique piece of identification to the reciever as well, that way it could prevent people from activating it who sholdnt be?

I think we started in my group on the topic after talking about some of the shows that show the police chases that usually end in a crash, so we figured, how could we help to keep this from happening

[Steel2686]

How about a surge that would somehow fry the computer? I've seen it in a movie, but not too sure about the technical aspects of pulling it off. That way, the driver still has control of the vehicle, but the engine/electronics are shut down.

[Joe 1320]

How about a surge that would somehow fry the computer? I've seen it in a movie, but not too sure about the technical aspects of pulling it off. That way, the driver still has control of the vehicle, but the engine/electronics are shut down.

That's an EM pulse. Too hard to keep concentrated in a particular area. It would fry everything electronic within range, including the sending equipment.