We have a lot of conservatives here... is it time for Bush/Cheney to resign?

[Dave M]

Read this article, then discuss.

A warning: Keep the discussion/debate civil or the thread will be gone quickly.

It's been too long since we've had a good knock down, drag-out political debate.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19588942/



Debate on the merits of the argument, not on what you think of Olbermann (or anyone else) as a person.

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[BrdWAtti2d]

Libby was railroaded, but so was Bill Clinton. If you look hard enough for dirt you'll find some. So what? Libby outted a CIA agent that everyone knew was a CIA agent, his mistake was lying about it, same with Clinton. I seriously doubt that Clinton was the first pres to get a little action in the oval office, but lying under oath is a “real” crime. If you are going to throw Libby in jail, Clinton should be his bunkmate. Politicians spend way too much time looking for dirt on their opponents and not enough time doing their job. That goes for both sides. Bush did the "right thing". The "right thing" is rarely ever popular, but some, our president included, do the "right thing" regardless of the circumstances. Oh and I guess everyone has conveniently forgotten about all the guys Clinton pardoned, some of them "real" criminals.

[Dave M]

The call for resignation is not just over the Libby thing. That is simply the straw that broke the camel's back. 3/4 of that article has nothing to do with Libby. And whether Bush did the "right thing" is debateable. He commuted the prison sentence before the appeals process was even complete. And Libby was sentenced by a judge Bush appointed to be tough on crime.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

[Jeff_in_Atl]

The prosecutor that filed the charges against Libby filled charges that were not possible. The law states that you can not divulge the name of a CIA covert agent. Valerie Plame was not a covert agent and it is very easy to prove that therefore the charges are invalid. Therefore the prosecutor should not have filed the charges. Also the judge should not have let this case go forward because the first thing he should do is judge the validity of the charges. He did not do that. Make no mistake, this was nothing but a political witch-hunt to try and get someone with the Bush administration. There was no crime committed before the charge were filed. What makes this laughable is Valerie Plame's husband had said many times before this that "hi wife was a CIA agent". Everybody in Washington new Valerie was his wife. Therefore everybody already new Valerie was a CIA agent even though she was nothing but a clerk. She had not been a covert agent for over 5 years. On top of that a New York times reporter wrote an article and published it almost 2 years earlier stating that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA as a clerk. This prosecution was a farce. It was not justice. Bush should have given him a full pardon not just commuted his jail sentence. This was wrong. Libby should never have been put in the position of testifying. This case has gone on way to long. Bush should have put a stop to it long ago.

The Clinton situation was different. The victim of a crime came forward to say she was a victim. Bill Clinton was accused of the crime. He was brought in to testify. A few other people were brought in to testify. It was found that he lied under oath. Bill Clinton's wife on national TV described the conversation that she and Bill where he came to her and told her that he had an affair with several women. There is no doubt that he committed a crime. For the life of me I don't understand why he was not prosecuted for it. He should have been.

There is no valid comparison between these 2 cases.

I personally believe that the Libby case is nothing but the democrats trying to get back for the Clinton problems. It is well known that the prosecutor in the Libby case was a democrat. This and most of the other anti Bush crap is nothing but the democrats trying and succeeding to make the Bush administration look bad so they can say the republicans are bad and if you are bad you vote for the republicans. This is politics in the 21st century.

The 21st century has brought in an era of BOTH political parties doing things to improve their party not this country. Both parties are not looking out for the citizens of this country. That are not doing things in the interest of this country. They are doing things to get them more votes so they can get elected again. The most obvious of this was the amnesty bill. They as in both parties were going to try and ram this through before the people could figure out what this was about. As Herman Cain said "they think you're stupid". They really do. They are so arrogant. The proof of this is in something Bush said. After the first defeat of the amnesty bill he said "I'll see you at the bill signing". That folks is arrogance and it is not limited to him. Most are that way. That includes Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Teddy the drunk Kennedy, you can go on and on. Our government is out of control. They are not working for us anymore.

BTW here is a list of Clinton #1 pardons.
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

Here is a list of all of G.H.W. Bush pardons.
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/bushgrants.htm

Here is a statistical list of all Pardons.
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/actions_administration.htm

[Black97]

You can tell, Bush is busy with the war, he doesn't have as much time as Clinton did to pardon criminals.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

You can tell, Bush is busy with the war, he doesn't have as much time as Clinton did to pardon criminals.

Or as much time to do "other" things but not enough time to protect us against Islamic fascism.

[MDMike]

The call for resignation is not just over the Libby thing. That is simply the straw that broke the camel's back. ..

Well put.
I voted for Bush twice. Bill also, so I am part of the voting majority.
Libby got used, like Monica.
The GOP wasnt serving the USA's interests in pursuing Bill's sex life, but Fitz and the senate is, namely ... liberty.
The biggest danger to this nation is not Al Qaida, but it is an unchecked Executive branch, and a powerless Judiciary.
As for Scooter, his biggest sin was worrying about the Administration's critics, when he and his handlers should have instead worried about our troop's lack of armor, and giving the public the straight story of why we invaded Iraq.
As for W, his faith got him in power, and when he looked to other power sources, he lost his Source of power.
Cheney is the most powerful and policaly-savvy VP in history.
Both let Rove call dissenters unpatriotic, yet both declined to serve in Viet Nam.
But impeachment is a stretch; there is no point in the Dems lowering themselves to the level of the Gingrich-led congress. W is impotent, the Supremes have finally checked Cheney, and immigration reform missed it's best chance ever, so 2008 will be the change. Hanging chad notwithstanding...

[Roger in Kensington]

Yep, Bush should resign. Not for anything Keith ("Maybe this will improve my ratings") Olbermann cites (which is, of course, absurd as anyone who has followed these matters knows), but for not protecting the borders.

His resignation would allow VP Cheney to assume the presidency. President Cheney could then appoint Fred Thompson as the VP.

If he wished, Cheney could then resign and President Thompson would be able to be elected to two full terms.

1-20-17: President Thompson's Last Day

The beauty is that certain "blue" areas of the country would quickly resemble Jonestown.

And maybe at long last Alec Baldwin would fulfill his vow to leave the country.

___________________________

None of this will come to pass, however, because President Bush is not going to resign.

[Joshu]

Simple and short: Lying about your PERSONAL sexual activities isn't much, I mean is it really going to change or help our country? Heck no. You could say it shows good morals from a leader, but republicans are having issues too (even more so). So just drop that argument right there.

My main point: George Bush has done more harm to this country than good. One thing I'll will give him thanks for is the war in Afghanistan, that needed to be taken care of. Iraq was millions of steps too far in my eye. If anything it has made us more of a target. This whole administration has made the rich richer and the poor poorer.

We should be a role model for other countries to follow. We've killed hundreds of thousands of people and what to we have to show for it? I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING OF PEOPLE DYING FOR A CAUSE THAT REMAINS UNJUSTIFIED. Humans are humans, we are all stuck on this planet together as a race.

450 BILLION dollars has been spent on this catastrophe. Some economists estimate that the war will cost 2 trillion. Should we be trusting an administration that keeps secrets and refuses to hand over documents? Our founding fathers we afraid of a secretive government. If the Bush administration has nothing to hide, why not turn them over?

So yes, Bush and Dick "Vader" Cheney should quit now.

Things that they've messed up:
Iraq
Immigration
Health Care
Education (more than you can imagine)
College Funding
Foreign Relations

It's time to drop our "These colors don't run" ego and take a step back and look at how bad we got screwed by this administration.

[MDMike]

hillay in 2008

[QUOTE=Jeff 95 Z28]The prosecutor that filed the charges against Libby filled charges that were not possible. The law states that you can not divulge the name of a CIA covert agent. ...Make no mistake, this was nothing but a political witch-hunt to try and get someone with the Bush administration.

The prosecutor was appointed by Bush.

The Clinton situation was different. The victim of a crime came forward to say she was a victim. ... For the life of me I don't understand why he was not prosecuted for it. He should have been.

IF you think everyone knew about Plame, then you know the whole state of Arkansas knew Paula Jones was a trailer park tart. Doesnt matter what the crime is; don't lie on the stand. There was no case vs Bill, or the Kontract with Amerika GOP couldve made it happen. Being irrationally hated by conservatives is no crime...

There is no valid comparison between these 2 cases.
Thats fir sure!

I personally believe that the Libby case is nothing but the democrats trying to get back for the Clinton problems. It is well known that the prosecutor in the Libby case was a democrat. This and most of the other anti Bush crap is nothing but the democrats trying and succeeding to make the Bush administration look bad so they can say the republicans are bad and if you are bad you vote for the republicans. This is politics in the 21st century.

The 21st century has brought in an era of BOTH political parties doing things to improve their party not this country. Both parties are not looking out for the citizens of this country. That are not doing things in the interest of this country.

This mostly a GOP/90's creation, but yr correct.

They are doing things to get them more votes so they can get elected again. The most obvious of this was the amnesty bill. They as in both parties were going to try and ram this through before the people could figure out what this was about. As Herman Cain said "they think you're stupid". They really do. They are so arrogant. The proof of this is in something Bush said. After the first defeat of the amnesty bill he said "I'll see you at the bill signing". That folks is arrogance and it is not limited to him. Most are that way. That includes Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Teddy the drunk Kennedy, you can go on and on. Our government is out of control. They are not working for us anymore.

You get what you vote for.
Until the GOP realizes Reagan is dead, they are lost. Thompson is not the answer, and McCain is too pragmatic for the zealots.
Hillary in 08, Fbodies for everyone!

[Jeff_in_Atl]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...se_than_t.html

[MDMike]

free scooter

I am glad Scooter got commuted, but not pardon.
W has nothing to loose with his approval ratings and lack of trust.
Rudy and McClain are the only qualified GOP candidates, even if McClain did that stupid 'Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran' song....
Scooter lied to deny us liberty. When Bill lied, nobody died.

[Roger in Kensington]

I am glad Scooter got commuted, but not pardon.
W has nothing to loose with his approval ratings and lack of trust.
Rudy and McClain are the only qualified GOP candidates, even if McClain did that stupid 'Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran' song....
Scooter lied to deny us liberty. When Bill lied, nobody died.

Is it too much to ask that you spell Sen. McCain's name correctly?

Assuming that "Scooter" lied (about what?), who died?

And if nobody died when "Scooter" lied, then shouldn't he receive the same punishment as when Clinton lied (nice of you to admit that he did)?

Wanna really see the Kool-Aid flow in "blue" regions? Bush should pardon Libby . . . and also pardon Clinton!! Because Clinton -- by his own admission -- is still a felon.

Who will be the first among this Board to argue that Clinton shouldn't be pardoned?

[wolfdogs]

this is the one person i've been for to respond, thats why I've been quiet......LOL

known Rog a long time, nobody is more versed on this stuff than him...

[Jeff_in_Atl]

this is the one person i've been for to respond, thats why I've been quiet......LOL

known Rog a long time, nobody is more versed on this stuff than him...

Except me.