30 MPG Silverado

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_09tPHmDR_c

The video states it gets 30mpg gasoline after its initial plug in charge is used by using a Saturn 4cyl and stronger electric motor. And it out tows a 5.3L Suburban. GM ran it through the GM Offroad Proving Grounds using only electric power.

I'm impressed...

[Blazer]

I am all for it, cool
Blazer

[Joe 1320]

When it makes production, I'll believe it. Somehow I think that the powers that be will fight this type of concept because they are heavily invested in oil.

[Steel2686]

When it makes production, I'll believe it. Somehow I think that the powers that be will fight this type of concept because they are heavily invested in oil.

Unfortunately... I think you hit this one right on the head, Joe.

I am a firm believer that the technology has always been there, but utilizing it would prevent certain people from having their pockets lined.

[Rhode Island Red]

When it makes production, I'll believe it. Somehow I think that the powers that be will fight this type of concept because they are heavily invested in oil.

Think of it from another direction... IF GM makes this to production, they'd be on the hook from politicians and every other group complaining about the rest if their line of trucks and etc. and politician to even impose more severe laws making a 2nd dark age (a la the 80's) of auto manufacturing even more dark when it occurs (pretty much a certainty)


Their entire profit structure could be on the line as fallout...

[sneitzel]

... utilizing it would prevent certain people from having their pockets lined.

Their entire profit structure could be on the line as fallout...

I disagree. There are HUGE dollars out there right now in eco-friendly vehicles. If GM (or any other manufacturer) could bring this or a similar type of vehicle to market, have it be reasonably priced and satisfy all of the environmentalist types they couldn't make them fast enough. Just look at the premium people were willing to pay for the Prius not to mention the six+ month wait...

Yes the autos are in bed with the oil companies. But if they had the chance to cut that tie and put that money back in their own pockets they'd do it in a second.

It doesn't make sense to hold back technology that could make your company billions of dollars. If they had the technology they would use it.

[Joe 1320]

One must look a little closer to realize the source of profits. In order to change technologies it takes billions in R&D, plus rely on outsourced technology prior to making the stuff in house. All this adds up to an incredible loss until the product comes to market and sells in quantity. If you folks remember, GM killed off several more fuel effecient cars so that their factories could be converted into producing more trucks and SUVs which were considerably less fuel effecient in order to chase profits. At the same time, our illustrious govenment revised the tax laws and made those very same trucks and SUVs a total write off for small business owners. Coincidence? I don't think so. Especially since our governemt officials are heavily invested in oil.

[sneitzel]

That is true Joe, but all of that R&D money would come back much quicker if they were selling 3 or 4 to 1 what they are now and doing it at a premium.

Pretend for a minute that tomorrow GM announces the "Holy Grail" line of vehicles. All of them get 100+ MPG, run on water, have zero emissions, are reliable, easy to maintain, have plenty of power and come in everything from a compact, to a sports car, to a midsize to an SUV. The only downside is they cost 5-10K more than current models (and only cost slightly more to manufacturer). Do you think they they would sell a couple of them?

I know I have painted an unrealistic picture here but now think if GM could announce a new technology that would give a 20-30% MPG increase and a 20-30% decrease in emissions over their current models at a cost of $5K per vehicle. They would still sell ALOT of cars and look very "Green" at the same time.

Everything considered, to me it just doesn't make business sense to hold back that technology. If it existed and was practical they would use it.

Just my $.02

[Joe 1320]

Pretend for a minute that tomorrow GM announces the "Holy Grail" line of vehicles. All of them get 100+ MPG, run on water, have zero emissions, are reliable, easy to maintain, have plenty of power and come in everything from a compact, to a sports car, to a midsize to an SUV. The only downside is they cost 5-10K more than current models (and only cost slightly more to manufacturer). Do you think they they would sell a couple of them?

I know I have painted an unrealistic picture here but now think if GM could announce a new technology that would give a 20-30% MPG increase and a 20-30% decrease in emissions over their current models at a cost of $5K per vehicle. They would still sell ALOT of cars and look very "Green" at the same time.

Everything considered, to me it just doesn't make business sense to hold back that technology. If it existed and was practical they would use it.

Just my $.02

i agree with the logic, but not with the practical application...... and I wish it were different.

The biggest problem is right in front of eveyone's face so to speak. Drive up and down the average suburban commercial zoned roadway and you see car lot after car lot busting at the seems with lease end vehicles for less than half of what new vehicles sell for. You can buy a crapload of gas over the life of that vehicle and still not approach the price that you will pay for that new "green vehicle" , not including what useage costs arise from there.

The point is that comsumers themselves aren't making the transition cost effective. Even the manufacturers don't get it....... look at what Toyota is doing to the owners that support their products by purchasing hybrids:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...aspx?GT1=10826

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ius_aging.html

With practices like this, it's no wonder that the consumer still doesn't see any benefit.

As far as would GM withold technology? I'll bet they would. In fact, they are doing so at this very minute. Smaller companies can put to market an all electric car that can blow the doors off the last Camaro SS that was produced, it can outhandle them, it just costs substantially more. There is also a list to get them. The downside is the price...... and the car company can show a profit. Why would GM invest perhaps a billion to change technologies when they are making plenty of profit on what they already have?

http://www.teslamotors.com/



Car makers do not have a free hand in the whole picture, they are still monitored and controlled by government regulations and policies. Combine that with what the consumer is willing to pay to offset fuel costs makes the whole issue a mess. GM makes far too much profit on their gas guzzlers to warrant changing anytime in the near future.

[sneitzel]

All good points.

I guess I just don't believe in the mass conspiracy theory.

they are making plenty of profit

There is no such thing...
If the potential was truly there to make more money they would exploit it.

I think there are plenty of innovative ideas out there but not one of them, including solar, electric, H2, etoh, biofuels etc., are ready to take the place of oil. Yet...

[Joe 1320]

All good points.

I guess I just don't believe in the mass conspiracy theory.


...

I think that conspiracy isn't the word........ more like mass ignorance and complacency.

[sneitzel]

I meant the conspiracy that the autos have all this wonderful, world changing technology figuratively locked up in a vault somewhere.

Mass ignorance and complacency on the part of consumers, I agree 1000%.

[Steel2686]

True, GM would sell quite a few vehicles if they had a world beater technology. However, those vehicles requiring less oil would lessen whatever money or reasons they have to slowly introduce better mileage vehicles.

To believe a no oil needed vehicle isn't possible for mass production is insanity.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means. I believe we landed on the moon... The holocaust, unfortunately, occurred... 9/11 was a terrorist attack. Not a Gov't set-up.

With that said... We put way too much faith into companies who's first order of business is to make money (this goes for Gov't as well). I can't help but think they are corrupt in some way.