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  • tic tic tic

    Tick, tick, tick...
    By Peter M. De Lorenzo
    Detroit. So it has come down to this for General Motors: 100 years of living, breathing American industrial and social history is on the precipice of total disaster, with the once-glittering corporate icon facing certain collapse if some sort of government financial aid package is not put together in the next 60 days.
    Think about that for a moment.
    The company that basically powered this nation through a century of progress and helped this country muster the strength to fight world wars - while contributing immeasurably to the fabric of America and the development of our vast middle class - is on the verge of filing bankruptcy.
    Unbeknownst to the legions of people out there in “fractured” America, the ones who fill the Internet with bile and who project such a level of viciousness and unbridled glee at the thought of the collapse of our domestic automobile industry as if it were – amazingly enough - some warped opportunity for celebration, there are countless towns, big and small, scattered all across this nation that have grown up with GM as their main employer and the main source of income for thousands of American families.
    I am absolutely convinced that the people who hate “Detroit” and want it to implode have not even the faintest of clues as to what it really means if it were allowed to happen. To those instant experts out there who are reveling at the thought of a major part of our country’s industrial fabric collapsing, I say be careful what you wish for - because if GM is allowed to fail, it will take the entire domestic auto industry down with it - meaning thousands of suppliers and dealers in towns making up a cross-section of America will go under too.
    For the record, there are around14,000 domestic-oriented dealers in the U.S. employing approximately 740,000 people with a payroll of around $35 billion – that’s billion with a “B.” But that’s just the dealer side of the equation. When you add in the suppliers and all of the associated businesses that either directly or indirectly depend on Detroit for their livelihoods, we’re talking almost three million people who would be out of work in a matter of just a few months, adding up to a $150 billion loss in personal income.
    Let’s take California, for instance. Judging by our reader mail, there seems to be a large contingent of people out there who adamantly believe that “Detroit deserves to die” etc., etc., and that whatever happens “won’t affect me.” But GM and the domestic auto industry’s collapse will most definitely affect Californians as well. NUMMI, a joint operation between GM and Toyota (the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe are built there) and the only San Francisco Bay Area car factory, is already reducing shifts and may even shut down its Tacoma pickup truck line due to the burgeoning economic slowdown. One of our readers who understands the ramifications of a domestic industry collapse passed this interesting local news report along about NUMMI, which said, "There are tens of thousands of additional jobs on the line besides the 5,000 at NUMMI. There are over 1,000 suppliers in California that provide parts. They in turn employ 50,000 people."
    That’s just one factory. Now multiply that by the staggering totals involved if GM - which has 22 stamping plants and 26 powertrain plants in North America on top of its assembly facilities - and the rest of the domestic automobile industry is allowed to fail. The tentacles of this kind of cataclysmic disaster would spread throughout the nation like a virus that could not be contained.
    I really don’t know why it’s so easy for people out there to dismiss the collapse of the domestic automobile industry as being some minor event that won’t affect them in the least, because each person who is part of that figure of three million represents a real family and real human story, all across this nation. It’s the mom and pop diners, stores and peripheral neighborhood businesses that depend on the workers who toil at these factories and plants for their livelihoods too. There are towns all across America that would simply dry up and blow away if the local GM or supplier plant shut down. That’s not an exaggeration, that’s a simple fact.
    I have been vilified of late by numerous critics for shifting my commentary to a more political tone over this election year, but I don’t offer any apologies. This country is not only in the throes of a financial crisis, it’s in the throes of a fundamental identity crisis as well. We as a nation have been lulled into thinking that things will work out and that any unpleasantness headed our way will be mere speed bumps on our journey to becoming a state of perpetual consumer bliss.
    Well, it just doesn’t work that way, folks.
    We live in a global economy that isn’t big on history or what we as a nation once did or stood for. We have to compete, or else we will arrive at a point when our national future will transition from being one of destiny to one being dictated to us by a unsavory set of circumstances and interests not in line in the least with our hopes, our dreams or our thinking.
    In order to compete in this global economy we have to get smarter in our schools and with our educational policies. A high school graduation rate of 50-60 percent should be anathema in our inner cities instead of too often the rule. Remedial classes for kids entering college (who are not able to handle freshman classes) should become a thing of the past. And our teachers need to be compensated realistically and properly so more of our brightest people can sign up to help shape our kids’ futures.
    Even though we as a nation don’t seem to have the stomach for hard work and sacrifice any longer - hell, I’m not sure those words and their meanings are even in the lexicon of vast swaths of our population - we must get tougher in the midst of this global economy, and we have to steel ourselves for the kind of battles we’ll face. And that means shoring up our manufacturing and supporting our homegrown industries that are so intertwined with communities all across this still great nation. It also means that President elect Obama will not only be President of the United States, he will have to be CEO of America, Inc. too.
    And America Inc. not only needs to be rebuilt, it needs to be fortified with new determination because there are far too many talented and creative people in this nation who can do extraordinary things and we need to make the idea – the idea that we can innovate, create, build and manufacture things that are the envy of the world - cool again, and take pride in doing so as well.
    In short, this nation needs a wake-up call.
    Anyone who thinks this country will not be thrown into a full-blown depression if the domestic automobile industry is allowed to fail is simply kidding themselves. We are facing a perfect storm of events that could spell disaster if we as a nation don’t act and act fast. And it would take years for this country to recover too.
    As I’ve said repeatedly the time for all of the idyllic, “let the free market run its course” hand-wringing is over. It’s far too late for that. This country’s leadership needs to get these loans to GM and the rest of the domestic automobile industry in the next 60 days, or life as we’ve come to know it in this country – and I mean every part of this country – not just here in the Motor City, will be severely and unequivocally altered.
    That tick, tick, tick you hear?
    It's the time running out on the future of America.
    Let’s hope that what needs to get done will in fact get done, before it's too late.
    Thanks for listening.

    The Goldens: Reno and Rocky

    2008 C6, M6, LS3, Corsa Extreme C/B, (it flys) & 2008 Yukon loaded (Titanic), 03 Ford Focus..everydaydriver.

    Wolfdog Rescue Resources, Inc.:http://www.wrr-inc.org
    Home Page: http://www.renokeo.com
    sold: 97 Firehawk, 97 Comp T/A, 2005 GTO, 2008 Solstice GXP turbo.

  • #2
    Maybe some investor will come in and continue the Corvette line.
    2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning

    1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD

    A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jeff_in_Atl
      Maybe some investor will come in and continue the Corvette line.
      if they dont, im gonna make this one last forever...

      The Goldens: Reno and Rocky

      2008 C6, M6, LS3, Corsa Extreme C/B, (it flys) & 2008 Yukon loaded (Titanic), 03 Ford Focus..everydaydriver.

      Wolfdog Rescue Resources, Inc.:http://www.wrr-inc.org
      Home Page: http://www.renokeo.com
      sold: 97 Firehawk, 97 Comp T/A, 2005 GTO, 2008 Solstice GXP turbo.

      Comment


      • #4
        Kill the union, save the company.

        As much as I wish it was the good ole days of high paying/low skill jobs, global competition has nixxed it for good. Ask why the Japanese car companies can build in the USA at a profit.

        I'm not saying I like it. Just reality.

        Fix it O!
        1994 Z28, 6 spd, LE2 Heads, GM 1.6 RR, .026" head gasket, SLP: CAI-Headers (CARB legal)-ypipe-2 on the left-lightweight flywheel-short throw, Random tech cat, CF dual friction, LT-4 KM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sean 94z28
          Kill the union, save the company......Fix it O!
          2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning

          1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD

          A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"

          Comment


          • #6
            I think the underlying theme here is that there is no pride in being an American. There are actually people who believe that American manufacturing, American products, American anything is bad. If the young people as well as some old don't take pride and respect our nation state, we will loose it. ...the sad thing is that a lot of young people don't care.

            We can poor all the money we want into the big three, but it won't matter at all if people don't buy them.

            I think more then anything, the attitudes of the people in this country are scary.
            '77 K5 rock-crawler project
            '79 T/A: WS6, 400 4sp, 40K miles; Completely stock and original
            '87 Lifted 3/4 ton Suburban (Big Blue) plow truck
            '94 Roadmaster Wagon (The Roadmonster) 200,000 miles and still going
            '97 T/A: (SLP 1LE Suspension, SB, & sfc(s), Loudmouth); 4.10s; B&M Ripper; R/A Hood; ZR1s
            My daily drivers: '06 Jeep Liberty CRD (wife); '01 Yukon Denali XL (me); '03 Stratus Coupe (me)

            I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
            Thomas Jefferson

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes I support some unions (being a part of one myself)... but they have to kill the unions to save these companies. They are just bleeding so much unnecessary cash. And like stated above by Mark, there is no pride in being an American. States around the nation are giving tax breaks and subsidies to bring foreign car makers here.

              And an investor for the vette?




















              Norm?

              2002 Firehawk Sold

              Comment


              • #8
                Think of the other spin offs- how much copper and wire is used per year in starters, alternators, wiper motors, and window motors? How many people and factories does it take to make the bolts and fasteners, the hoses, - what about tires, gas and oil- not just the manufacturing, but the shipping, distributing, warehouses?

                Now think about financing- banks, credit unions, the trickle down for auto parts, service shops. Starting to get the idea, yet? Back in the 60's the management of GM bragged that what was good for the company was good for the country. And that something like one in five or one in six of the people in this country was working either for the auto industry, or related- batteries, oil, steel- the list goes on and on-

                Maybe that is part of the problem- that the GM upper management thought they were too big, too 'above it all' I know they haven't been the most responsive to what many customers wanted. And the government and environmental regulations ham-string them too. Let foreign competitors sell their wares here with no tariffs, no taxes, no quotas- yet we can't sell our cars in Japan, or some other markets- Keep making higher, unattainable CAFE standards, legislate catalysts, air bags, vehicle stability. Pretty soon you won't be able to build a car that doesn't have 20 or 30 thousand dollars worth of government mandates included. Not a very level playing field- wonder how many lobbyists from Toyonda or Nissubaru paid members of congress? Sell cars in Japan? We can't even sell them our steel- they take from this country our raw materials, scrap iron, oil, timber, and do all the manufacturing there, to sell us back TV's and cars- The very definition of a third-world country-

                20-some years ago, I worked in manufacturing- back when we could build power plants, and dams- when american products were the best in the world. I remember when Rolls Royce used to buy automatic transmissions from GM because they were the best in the world. Now we have a whole generation of kids that think only japan can build a high performance car, that american V-8's, that won two world wars, are dinosaurs... Sad, and I don't mean to ramble. We don't even build the high-tech stuff we invented here. Pretty grim- I hope people wake up soon, before it is too late to turn these trends around. Buy american- the job you save may be your own-
                2001 Z28 A4 - 160 deg t-stat, 3.42 gears, WS6 sway bars, rear springs and shocks, UMI SFC's, Torque Arm and STB, leather Firebird seats, Borla, SLP Y-pipe and lid, ZO6 cam and springs - 332 RWHP and 346 RWTQ, not bad for 'almost stock' - work in progress
                "Black, the fastest color"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sean 94z28
                  Kill the union, save the company.

                  As much as I wish it was the good ole days of high paying/low skill jobs, global competition has nixxed it for good. Ask why the Japanese car companies can build in the USA at a profit.
                  The Japanese can build in the USA at a profit because they don't have the massive retiree benefit payments. They don't have to worry about retirees back in Japan because they're covered by a national healthcare system.

                  An employee for a Japanese car company working in the US makes the same $28/hour average as an employee for GM, Ford, or Chrysler. They also get similar benefits. Why? Because by paying them what the big 3 pay their workers, they keep the Union out. It allows them to terminate employees at will and have no contracts to deal with. They also use alot more automation to produce cars, keeping their cost per vehicle down.

                  So quit blaming everything on the unions. Japanese companies pay their employees the same and give them the same benefits. They just don't have the legacy costs and have fewer overall employees.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 99Firebird3800
                    The Japanese can build in the USA at a profit because they don't have the massive retiree benefit payments. They don't have to worry about retirees back in Japan because they're covered by a national healthcare system.

                    An employee for a Japanese car company working in the US makes the same $28/hour average as an employee for GM, Ford, or Chrysler. They also get similar benefits. Why? Because by paying them what the big 3 pay their workers, they keep the Union out. It allows them to terminate employees at will and have no contracts to deal with. They also use alot more automation to produce cars, keeping their cost per vehicle down.

                    So quit blaming everything on the unions. Japanese companies pay their employees the same and give them the same benefits. They just don't have the legacy costs and have fewer overall employees.
                    The UAW has A LOT to do with the downfall of the US automaker. You forgot to add the buyouts when an employee is let go that the UAW requires GM/Ford/Chrysler to pay their departing employees. That has been a very underrated reason. About two or three years ago, Fox News had interviewed some employees in one of the GM truck plants. When asked if they were nervous about losing their jobs because of workforce cuts, the majority said the buyout they would receive is well more than necessary for living.

                    I did a little research before I bought my Acura as to it's roots. It was built and designed in Marysville, Ohio. There is no union, and the employee turnover rate is under 2% a year. The employees are genuinely happy with their pay and benefits packages. The survey given by an outside source (I'll look it up, but I believe it was Reuters) had a union question. The question was simple... Would you be for a union if the possibilities for pay increase were better? It was an overwhelming 94% against. Most cited unions have a way of ruining companies, not helping.
                    SOLD: 2002 Trans Am WS.6 - Black on Black - 6 Speed
                    SLP Loudmouth Exhaust
                    17K Miles

                    2005 Acura TL - Silver on Black
                    Navigation - Surround Audio - Bluetooth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The UAW needs to stop being a millstone around GM and other American manufacturer's necks- Let them vote as to whether or not they want to keep jobs, or run the company out of business and they can all try to go work for McDonalds or WalMart- neither of which is unionized, IIRC-
                      2001 Z28 A4 - 160 deg t-stat, 3.42 gears, WS6 sway bars, rear springs and shocks, UMI SFC's, Torque Arm and STB, leather Firebird seats, Borla, SLP Y-pipe and lid, ZO6 cam and springs - 332 RWHP and 346 RWTQ, not bad for 'almost stock' - work in progress
                      "Black, the fastest color"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For the past 6-8 years, we discussed the necessary restructuring for GM, and basically nothing of significance changed. In so many ways, this company's hands are tied. They need to reduce production capacity and workforce so that they can stream-line and slim down their product offerings. Bailing out GM and feeding this bloated mess will only prolong the problem. The North American company just can't adapt to the market. How long did GM put the 3.8 push rod engine in their cars...mid 2000s? Seriously, is a person looking for a sedan going to buy an Impala, Grand Prix/G6, Regal/Lacrosse or are they going to buy an Accord/Camry? A friend purchased a new 2004 Grand Prix, and that thing rattled since it was new plus it is a dog when it comes to power. That car was 10 years old before it was driven off the lot. I was embarrassed when I rode in it. Toyotas and Hondas are updated every three years.

                        Their Trucks can't compete with Ford and Dodge when it comes to working them. Now, they are receiving competition on the sport truck market from the Japanese when the market is contracting. I own a Denali that was horribly expensive when it was new. When I drive it down the road, it rattles...what the heck? I like it, but I also paid a fraction of what it cost new. I would never touch one of these new.

                        The business model is horribly outdated, and there are way too many models that resuse that same old stuff. How much did it cost to close Oldsmobile? The company can't shift, shut down, and re-tool on a few cars they do well like their competitors. Even Ford re-did their entire vehicle line-up based on market forces. GM's reputation goes further down the drain every day. ...GM is the Titanic, and the UAW is holding hostage to the life boats refusing to let the company use them to save as much as they can (or should). As long as GM is forced in the current model of doing business, they will continue to not meet the needs of the market while saturating it with sub-standard rental cars. Based on their contractual obligations, they will saturate the market even in a recession.

                        The government should mediate their contracts and let them restructure based on the 21st century market, not feed the mess of a bunch of workers who refuse to change. I am disgusted with the mentality of let the company fail rather then doing what needs to be done to save it. Although, the reputation of the company is so far gone that I don't know what will happen. The new Malibu and Malibu Hybrid is a great car, but so few know or care.

                        My last new car was a Jeep. GM had absolutely nothing where I would be willing to make payments. (w/ the exception of the Vette) I have over $6,000 of earnings on a GM card and I still won't jump on their products. Well, it doesn't matter. Whoever, has the best technology for hybrids and electrics will win the market in the next decade. Auto manufacturers will build commuting appliances and hot rod builders will build for the enthusiasts.
                        '77 K5 rock-crawler project
                        '79 T/A: WS6, 400 4sp, 40K miles; Completely stock and original
                        '87 Lifted 3/4 ton Suburban (Big Blue) plow truck
                        '94 Roadmaster Wagon (The Roadmonster) 200,000 miles and still going
                        '97 T/A: (SLP 1LE Suspension, SB, & sfc(s), Loudmouth); 4.10s; B&M Ripper; R/A Hood; ZR1s
                        My daily drivers: '06 Jeep Liberty CRD (wife); '01 Yukon Denali XL (me); '03 Stratus Coupe (me)

                        I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
                        Thomas Jefferson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is the latest...

                          http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,453632,00.html

                          "Top House Democrats also were putting the finishing touches Monday on their own bill to provide auto industry loans in exchange for some sort of government stake in the companies, with strict limits on executive compensation, new environmental requirements and the elimination of dividends."

                          Regardless if the company fails or succeeds, cars as we know it are coming to an end.

                          I will be the first in line for a 4cyl hybrid Vette.

                          We are about to embark on the biggest government takeover of our lives since the 1930s Raw Deal.

                          '77 K5 rock-crawler project
                          '79 T/A: WS6, 400 4sp, 40K miles; Completely stock and original
                          '87 Lifted 3/4 ton Suburban (Big Blue) plow truck
                          '94 Roadmaster Wagon (The Roadmonster) 200,000 miles and still going
                          '97 T/A: (SLP 1LE Suspension, SB, & sfc(s), Loudmouth); 4.10s; B&M Ripper; R/A Hood; ZR1s
                          My daily drivers: '06 Jeep Liberty CRD (wife); '01 Yukon Denali XL (me); '03 Stratus Coupe (me)

                          I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
                          Thomas Jefferson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            not looking good...
                            http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/...ut_what_s_next
                            Greg W. in West Michigan
                            1992 Formula WS6-A/R Rims, Stock L05 swap, Former Abuse Victim
                            1983 Z28-Parts car- *Sold*
                            1984 Z28-305 HO Auto *Sold*
                            1986 Camaro-V-6 5Spd *Sold*
                            1984 Camaro-V-6 Auto *Sold*
                            <Motor out

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Apparently there isn't enough pork or profit in the bills yet to get our legislator's attentions- why should they ever do anything that doesn't benefit them? Probably one of the big problems in this country, the elite 'ruling class' that can't be bothered by the problems of the 'common' citizens-
                              2001 Z28 A4 - 160 deg t-stat, 3.42 gears, WS6 sway bars, rear springs and shocks, UMI SFC's, Torque Arm and STB, leather Firebird seats, Borla, SLP Y-pipe and lid, ZO6 cam and springs - 332 RWHP and 346 RWTQ, not bad for 'almost stock' - work in progress
                              "Black, the fastest color"

                              Comment

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