GM on the brink...

[markd79ta]

Looks like they're on the brink of destruction. I guess I need to start liking Fords.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,505130,00.html

[Jeff_in_Atl]

If GM goes under you can blame the unions for it. They are going to do to GM what they did to Eastern airlines.

[Joshu]

If GM goes under you can blame the unions for it. They are going to do to GM what they did to Eastern airlines.

X1000 .... Just like Eastern the union was a huge problem...among others.

[Christopherrr]

Crud...

[gimp19]

I think there is alot more to it then the unions, but nothing right now is in any automakers favor. People with jobs are taking paycuts, and those without cant even afford to drive let alone buy a brand new car not knowing if you'll have work the next day dosn't help either.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I think there is alot more to it then the unions, but nothing right now is in any automakers favor. People with jobs are taking paycuts, and those without cant even afford to drive let alone buy a brand new car not knowing if you'll have work the next day dosn't help either.

So splain to me why GM, Ford and Chrysler can make money building cars outside the US but not inside the US? Different management? Nope.

US=unions.
outside US=no unions.

[Rhode Island Red]

So splain to me why GM, Ford and Chrysler can make money building cars outside the US but not inside the US? Different management? Nope.

US=unions.
outside US=no unions.

It's not just about unions. They make cars world-wide so many models sold make use of cheap labor. That's why all the free-trade agreements have been pushed through congress starting in the 90's , and that offshoring has and is popular. Unions started becoming a "problem" as a result of the FTA's changing all business models (lay off workers in the US, make product at $1 a day labor elsewhere and ship product with no duties as a result of the FTA's) as a unions interst is in protecting their members jobs and benifits, which *gasp* is in the way of companies to do as they see fit to lay the masses and get cheap labor elsewhere. The unions being a so called problem in this case mere reflect a deeper problem of the loss of quality of life as a result of industry practices.

Yes the unions can be obstinant and hold on to the gold even in their graves and kill a business, but it was the greed of businesses themselves that fostered their creation in the first places (1800's - child labor, 12+ hour workdays', near slave wages etc.) . Guess I hope your wrong in blaming the unions if GM goes under, but if they do go under it will not be directly from them, it will be from changes in the industry (offshoring and FTA's), and a slumping economy, not from a group of employees holding on to what they earned and want to protect, (jobs, benifits) .

GM hasn't been playing on a even battle field for years, due to the foreign companies source of cheap labor, and elimination of tarrifs and that is soley to blame on our elected officials. So if anything happens, the politicians are the starting point, the ones that ingnored the problems and allowed them to continue on like a cancer, and the ones that will put the nail in the coffin. The current economy meerly is able to shows how far they weakend (something to the effect like a cancer weakening the body over a period of years and another infection, say pneumonia, taking the final blow)

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

Yes, I know it's a risk, but I'm buying GM stock left and right. It's almost foolish to not...as far as I'm concerned.

When we look back at the current "Rockefeller" types in the US today, these chaps made their money during the depression by buying everything when the prices were down. What we are experiencing today is going to create the next century's billionaires.

If GM goes under...for me, it was worth the risk. However, if (and I completely believe "when") they return to profitability, and the stock is back to where it was two years ago ($40 per share) my small investment is going to allow me to retire early. The way I look it, if given the choice between buying a $10,000 Roth IRA, or 6,000 shares of GM, the IRA is silly. It may take 10 years to recover, but if it rebounds back to 40, I'll make almost $250K profit....better than playing the lottery. The IRA would be worth perhaps double...yeah, so. It could also be worth less.

I just wish the rest of these "kool-aid" drinkers would realize this. How anybody recommends dumping GM stock is beyond me.

[markd79ta]

It's not just about unions. They make cars world-wide so many models sold make use of cheap labor. That's why all the free-trade agreements have been pushed through congress starting in the 90's , and that offshoring has and is popular. Unions started becoming a "problem" as a result of the FTA's changing all business models (lay off workers in the US, make product at $1 a day labor elsewhere and ship product with no duties as a result of the FTA's) as a unions interst is in protecting their members jobs and benifits, which *gasp* is in the way of companies to do as they see fit to lay the masses and get cheap labor elsewhere. The unions being a so called problem in this case mere reflect a deeper problem of the loss of quality of life as a result of industry practices.

Yes the unions can be obstinant and hold on to the gold even in their graves and kill a business, but it was the greed of businesses themselves that fostered their creation in the first places (1800's - child labor, 12+ hour workdays', near slave wages etc.) . Guess I hope your wrong in blaming the unions if GM goes under, but if they do go under it will not be directly from them, it will be from changes in the industry (offshoring and FTA's), and a slumping economy, not from a group of employees holding on to what they earned and want to protect, (jobs, benifits) .

GM hasn't been playing on a even battle field for years, due to the foreign companies source of cheap labor, and elimination of tarrifs and that is soley to blame on our elected officials. So if anything happens, the politicians are the starting point, the ones that ingnored the problems and allowed them to continue on like a cancer, and the ones that will put the nail in the coffin. The current economy meerly is able to shows how far they weakend (something to the effect like a cancer weakening the body over a period of years and another infection, say pneumonia, taking the final blow)

The UAW refuses to accept the same pay/benefits as the workers at the Honda and Toyota plants here in the US. The job banks, unreasonable health/retirement programs as well as the cost of closing a plant/stealership is the causes of Detroit's demise. They can't change and adapt to the market because of the existing contracts.

All three of them need to file Chapter 11.

--------

On a different subject. I know several people in IT who refused to work for less after the dot com bust...they spent months/years out of work. Well, a lot of those jobs were outsourced.

If the worker's demands are unreasonable, the job will be lost.

[Joe 1320]

Usually I stay out of these kinds of topics........ but here goes.

One of the reasons GM (and the other US manufacturers) Are having difficulty is due to an unequal playing field.

In order to figure out the problem for yourself, use these questions:

How many vehicles of foreign manufacture are imported into the US?
How may vehicles of domestic manufacture are exported?
How many vehicles of foreign ownership are manufactured here in the US?
How many vehicles of domestic ownership are manufactured elsewhere?

Compare wages of union vs non union labor and fit them into the production biases and you would become suprised that the big three had stayed in the game at all. In fact, if it weren't for tax incentives over the last couple of presidential terms, profits would have tanked years ago.

You'll find the numbers are stacked against domestic manufacturer profits as we know it. The entire political stage has been paving the way to this outcome for many years.

[Wild Willy]

I have to agree with Joe on this- You think there is any chance at all of GM going to, say, Japan, and building a factory and selling cars successfully there? Or Sweden, or Germany, etc. Let alone the chance that any Honda or Toyota built cars assembled in the US being exported back to Japan... not likely!

Back in the 60's and early 70's, the US had protectionist tariffs on 4wd trucks, to protect the domestic manufacturers- that is how the original Subaru Brat came to be- it was sold as a passenger vehicle, not a pickup truck, so as not to have to pay the 20 or 25 percent tax-

The US has opened it's markets here up to the world, good for us consumers who can buy products more cheaply from anywhere, but bad for our manufacturers who are now trying to compete on an uneven playing field-

Just like GE, GM will be another major manufacturer that may have to move production off-shore, if they stay alive at all. Meanwhile, more good jobs making things go away- Pretty soon there is going to be nobody left to pay the taxes to cover the bills for any of these government programs-

[gimp19]

For the most part the sales of every manufacter are down drastically including Japanese. Nobody can afford to buy them, or are afraid to for various reasons. I do agree that some of it has to with unions and poor planning, gas going over $4 didnt help either.