Am I screwed?

[gimp19]

To make a long story short I took my used 04 Silverado to the dealership about 1 1/2years ago before gm certified warranty ran out to have it looked at for engine noise. They pressure tested it and checked the oil for contamination every thing came back fine, so I ignored the noise . Lately its been using alot of coolant and my last oil change started loosing alot of pressure w/only 2,000miles on it. I kinda thought something was going on but thought maybe there is a small leak at the waterpump and chnged the oil w/mobile 1.

Untill today I started it up to go to work and it sounded like there was no oil in it at all, after a couple minutes it sounded fine though. It made the same noise when I left work too.

So I get home and do some research, looks like gm issued a tsb for castech heads that crack internally causing coolant to seep through them and contaminate the oil. I have all the symptoms, unfortunetly its not a recall and my warranty is up. Should I go right back to the dealership and complain, call gm or is there no hope?

Kinda sucks that I owe $12,000 on it still I've actually considered trading it in, this will be the last gm I own and I've been a diehard gm fan for over 10years.

[wolfdogs]

To make a long story short I took my used 04 Silverado to the dealership about 1 1/2years ago before gm certified warranty ran out to have it looked at for engine noise. They pressure tested it and checked the oil for contamination every thing came back fine, so I ignored the noise . Lately its been using alot of coolant and my last oil change started loosing alot of pressure w/only 2,000miles on it. I kinda thought something was going on but thought maybe there is a small leak at the waterpump and chnged the oil w/mobile 1.

Untill today I started it up to go to work and it sounded like there was no oil in it at all, after a couple minutes it sounded fine though. It made the same noise when I left work too.

So I get home and do some research, looks like gm issued a tsb for castech heads that crack internally causing coolant to seep through them and contaminate the oil. I have all the symptoms, unfortunetly its not a recall and my warranty is up. Should I go right back to the dealership and complain, call gm or is there no hope?

Kinda sucks that I owe $12,000 on it still I've actually considered trading it in, this will be the last gm I own and I've been a diehard gm fan for over 10years.

call the dealer, call gm..what do you have to lose?

"last gm I will own"...because of an incident like this? every manufacture has recalls, probs, tsb's........ look at Toyota right now... largest recall in history..

recalls are only safety related, thats why its just a tsb.

[gimp19]

call the dealer, call gm..what do you have to lose?

"last gm I will own"...because of an incident like this? every manufacture has recalls, probs, tsb's........ look at Toyota right now... largest recall in history..

recalls are only safety related, thats why its just a tsb.

From what I've read gm will do little to nothing, I'm gonna take it to my mechanic first and see what he says. The thing is at this point replacing the heads might just be a bandaid I bet there is some hdden/premature wear all ready done to the internals.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

A lot depends on the service writer. If you know one or have worked with one a lot go to them first. If the first one tells you no go to another dealership. I had an electric air pump covered under warrantee even though the car had 96,000 miles on it. Gm only covers them for 80,000 miles so it depends on how nice they are and how nice you are to them.

[Wild Willy]

Well, the air pump might have been part of the emissions package, and I believe the warranty on emission stuff is longer- They replaced one of my catalysts right at 100,000 miles-

If you can document the problem happened, or was reported and looked at while under warranty, and you have a cooperative service guy, you might be able to work something out. Take it to the next level if you have to, sometimes they do work out of 'good will' trying to keep loyal customers happy. Don't come at them with an attitude, but ask if they are willing to negotiate- maybe you could pay for parts and they would do the labor, something like that-

[gimp19]

I'm on my mechanic, gm should have do something about this if it is the cracked heads. Although they probly wont then I'll have to figure out my next move, I told my mechanic that I changed the oil early last time cause it was loosing pressure (thought maybe it was the walmart oil/fram filter). Last month I put in mobile one with an a/c delco filter, thats only got about 1,000miles on it and I've put about 1gal. of coolant in since August, and its almost empty already, and the about engine's startup noise. I didnt say anything about the possible cracked heads/heads, I'll see what he comes up with and go from there. I hope what ever the problem is gm will help out with it, I'd take a huge hit if engine turn out to be toast........ anyone know about how much it would cost to have a new/rebuilt one installed?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Well, the air pump might have been part of the emissions package, and I believe the warranty on emission stuff is longer- They replaced one of my catalysts right at 100,000 miles-

It is. It is 80,000 miles as I stated above for emissions components. Mine was way out of warrantee but they replaced it anyway.

[gimp19]

My mechanic is about 99% sure its a cracked head. I did not mention anything too him about that cause I didnt want him to jump to any conclusions. I called gm they dont seem to want to do anything about it, but told me to take it to a stealership and have them diagnose it. I told him it was a dealership that told me the noises were "normal" a year and a half ago when it was under warranty and I should not be stuck with a $20,000 piece of steel because of gm using defective parts and I dont want to be stuck paying for their
mistakes......................... didnt really get any further then that it was kind of a run around

[Joe 1320]

I'm going to chime in here and you may not like what you hear....... then again you just might.

first, I cannot count how many LT-1s that I've seen blow a head gasket at about 120K miles. Most times the fire ring degrades at the number 7 cylinder or the #8. My 93 Z28 did it at about 140K, My 97 WS6 did that right at 120K miles as well. I pulled the heads, replaced the gaskets and everything was good to go.

Second, I would like to know exactly how a mechanic can be 99% sure it's a cracked head without a complete teardown and magnaflux. Many times a crack closes up when the clamping load is removed so a magnaflux proceedure would likely be needed to pinpoint a crack. Just because it's leaking coolant does not mean the head is cracked. Without pulling the head, saying the head is cracked tells me someone is fishing for a high dollar repair charge.

Third, since you owe 12K, I would do headgaskets and drive it for another 100K miles. If a head is indeed cracked, a good junkyard core is cheap. I did mine in a weekend of wrenching and the cost was less than $500 in parts.

[gimp19]

Joe your are correct, as of right now neither me, my mechanic or the dealership know for sure if that is the problem (although the symptoms are there) so its basically an educated guess. I know enough about cars to do all my basic work and maintaince repairs, but have never really had to troubleshoot a problem like this. I took it to the dealership today he smelled the oil, inspected filler cap for sludge and told me "there dosnt appear to be any contamination" in the next breath he's tells me "they are gonna have to open it up", then he says "maybe your coolant loss and engine noise are unrelated". I agreed and asked the best way to narrow down the coolant issue and he goes right back to taking the motor apart.

I made the post below on another forum:


Anybody know how or where I can get an oil analysis done? The dealership has been just looking for sludge on my filler cap and basically saying since there is no sludge, there is probly no coolant in the oil. He told me they'd have to take the valve covers off and inspect the heads, all this "troubleshooting" I'm gonna have to pay for so I'm trying to figure out the best way to narrow down the possibilities and track where all this coolant is going.

Basically I think he wants me to pay them all kinds of money to troubleshoot the problem, before actually getting to the bottom of it.

Btw. Gm will not do anything to help they have lost a loyal customer, I should not be paying for there mistakes.

[Joe 1320]

If it were me.....

Forget an oil analysis. Since you are losing coolant, it's going somewhere. Since it's not going into the crankcase ( you would know it as water mixed with oil turns into a big milkshake that would quickly overfill the oil pan and ruin the engine bearings.

It's likely being burned in the combustion chamber. Pull the spark plugs, the cylinder that is burning coolant will show a different color plug insulator and electrode. It will show roughly where the gasket is blown. My bet is that you will probably only need new gaskets and headbolts, along with a new intake manifold gasket redo. If you were local, we could knock that out quick.

[Z Ya Later]

gimp, listen to these guys. If you can talk with one of the service managers at a local dealership and be nice to them, chances are they will do a lot to try and help you. No, not all of them will, but there are those that will. Remember, some of these guys are car nuts too, and they will want to help you if you treat them the way you want them to treat you. Not trying to get on your case, just trying to help.

As for the coolant leak, Joe is right. If you're not seeing chocolate oil and there's no puddles under the truck when its been parked, that stuff is going somewhere. A simple plug check, as Joe mentioned, will help tell you where. And, although the task seems daunting, its not that bad if you take your time with it.

As for the "not buying another GM" thing, that's a bit hasty. As Ken pointed out, its not just a GM thing. Do you really think any other company would handle this differently? Just keep your cool and this will be resolved quickly and painlessly.

[gimp19]

If it were me.....

Forget an oil analysis. Since you are losing coolant, it's going somewhere. Since it's not going into the crankcase ( you would know it as water mixed with oil turns into a big milkshake that would quickly overfill the oil pan and ruin the engine bearings.

It's likely being burned in the combustion chamber. Pull the spark plugs, the cylinder that is burning coolant will show a different color plug insulator and electrode. It will show roughly where the gasket is blown. My bet is that you will probably only need new gaskets and headbolts, along with a new intake manifold gasket redo. If you were local, we could knock that out quick.

So if my head were cracked I'd definatly be noticing it in my oil, but with blown gasket the symptoms are differant?

Heres my list I will see if I can get around to the plugs saturday.

Top half of engine sounds like it had no oil for the first 5seconds on a cold start.

Disappearing coolant with no visual signs of contamination in the resivor or crankcase.

There is noticable amounts of water/condensation coming from the tailpipe witch has been since I bought the truck.

My oil pressure is good right now reading 40psi at idle, previous oil change (supertech w/fram) drastically lost pressure was down around 30psi at idle with only 2000miles on it. I changed that my self w/mobile 1 and a delco filter, and didn't notice anything unusual with the old stuff appearance wise.

Engine temp is right where it should be and stays there.

Thanks all I can think of sorry if Im rambling havn't got much sleep all week cause of this and I appreciate all of your knowledge and input. I've gotten farther with you guys then my mechanic or that dealership. Thanks again.

[Z Ya Later]

Top half of engine sounds like it had no oil for the first 5seconds on a cold start.

I'm no expert, but that might be a problem with the oil pickup or the oil pump. What weight oil are you using?

Disappearing coolant with no visual signs of contamination in the resivor or crankcase.

Any puddles or drips?

There is noticable amounts of water/condensation coming from the tailpipe witch has been since I bought the truck.

Does it do this when its cold or all the time?

[gimp19]

Traded it in for a mazda6, I'm kinda thinking the mobile 1 I put in might have made the "piston slap" worse. Gm says its normal personally I don't like dosnt sound good for the life of the motor to me. I was looking for a small car for a dd anyways cause I dont use it as a truck much anyway's and the gas gets expensive after a while. I'm kinda glad although I'm gonna miss it when the snow starts falling.