Going to test drive a 2010 Camaro this Thusday...

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

I stopped by the local dealer the other day, where they had about 18 on the lot. I was pretty surprised when I saw all of the examples at the front of the lot. So I had to go in and take a look. I sat in a very nice 2LT V6 that was decked out. I have to say, the seats and general interior seem to be leaps and bounds better than my 2000 model. There are so many cool little "bells and whistles" in that car. I really liked the USB port for the stereo, the Blue Tooth controls on the steering wheel, etc. The controls themselves are really nice, especially compared to the Fisher Price looking controls in the 4th gen cars. The only downside I could find was the very limited view out of the back and sides of the car. The front view is much like that of the Vettes, where you can see the hood that seems to go out about 6 feet. It makes the sight lines of my car seem like I am in a Honda Accord. But, I think that is something I could get used to and have it eventurally be second nature as far as knowing where the corners are while navigating tight spaces.
I was actually surprised by how much room there is in the front of the thing. I am 6'5" tall and had heard that tall people wouldn't really fit well. But, I actually didn't even need to have the seat all the way back like I do with my current car. The rear seats are still only suitable for toddlers or small children, but that was to be expected.
I am going to go and drive the 6 and the SS, and see if it is something I really want to start saving for. I have the wife's blessing already, but I just want to get more of our debt paid off first. If only we had her car paid off already, there would be no question. I think I made a mistake by building my own on Chevy's website several times. Then watched a bunch of videos of them on You Tube. Now that I have sat in one and will soon drive one, I fear I may be doomed. But, I can't resist. I am going on Thursday so that it is hopefully on a slow day when I won't be keeping the salesman from seeing customers who might actually buy something. I used to be a salesman, so I try to be sensitive to that sort of thing. But I had plenty of people do the same sort of thing with me when I was selling. And I was just happy to get to drive the cars ( Camaro's and Vette's ), so I didn't mind. Anyway, I will let ya'll know how the drive goes if anyone is interested. Should be fun....

[Steel2686]

Definitely keep us posted. I really want to drive one now that I've driven two very fine examples of the other ponies (a 2009 Challenger and a 2010 Mustang GT). It would be ool to hear what your thoughts are.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

The Camaro has some very serious troubles ahead with the coming of the 2011 Mustang GT....412 hp, a couple grand less, and about 300 pounds less.

Heck, even the 2011 V6 Mustang is now 305 hp. I'm afraid my fears about the Camaro are coming true sooner than I thought...the extreme heft is going to cause major concerns and ultimately doom the car. 3,900 pounds is very difficult to ignore.

I really hope GM engineers are working on finding a way to put this car on a diet. If not, drop in the LSA, and keep the price under $40K...maybe then, and only then, will the Camaro be competitive. Otherwise, sales will drop off the cliff and bye-bye all over again.

[ReBop]

You should call the Dave Ramsey show and ask him what he thinks. He'll say you're nuts! It's the passion, man!

The frugal me says save for it, after you're debt free on everything else.

Camaros are likely to improve in the next year or two from what they are now.

Get a V8 version, for sure. No question about that decision.

[Steel2686]

The Camaro has some very serious troubles ahead with the coming of the 2011 Mustang GT....412 hp, a couple grand less, and about 300 pounds less.

Heck, even the 2011 V6 Mustang is now 305 hp. I'm afraid my fears about the Camaro are coming true sooner than I thought...the extreme heft is going to cause major concerns and ultimately doom the car. 3,900 pounds is very difficult to ignore.

I really hope GM engineers are working on finding a way to put this car on a diet. If not, drop in the LSA, and keep the price under $40K...maybe then, and only then, will the Camaro be competitive. Otherwise, sales will drop off the cliff and bye-bye all over again.

The return of the 5.0 is a very smart move by Ford, even if a couple years later than it should have debuted again. I drove a 2010 Mustang GT with the 4.6 and even with that underpowered engine, the car was a blast to drive. It was very nimble (certainly more nimble than the 2009 Challenger I drove). The interior was fantastic, and I hate to admit how much I fell in love with almost everything about the car.... Almost. I just couldn't get past the relatively low powerplant.

Now that the 5 liter is returning in one form or another, I can't wait to drive one. I might have a weekend warrior sooner than later, although I'll give the Camaro a long look first. I keep hearing about a Z/28 model making it's way back, but I'll sit tight.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

Don't get me wrong...I'm a GM man to the core...tried and true!

86 Chevy Cavalier Z24
96 Pontiac T/A (still have)
97 Pontiac Sunfire GT
00 Pontiac Montana (sister-in-law has it)
03 Pontiac Vibe GT (still have)
09 Enclave CXL (still have)

But the reality of the "New" GM is that sales are the driver of continued development and continued production. If the Camaro sales decline dramatically, GM will pull the plug. For the first 8 months or so, Camaro sales dominated. But in the end, the Mustang sales still overtook the Camaro. With a major revision coming in the next several months (2011 Mustang will be out this year), Mustang sales may double or triple the Camaro.

That scares me... I waited too long (and had to remain silent) for the return of the GM musclecar. Do you know what it's like to be surrounded by Ford fans and have no rebuttal other than , "Scott said the Camaro will return soon and be better than ever". Well, now that it's here, and the hoopla of its return is waning, the only thing GM cares about is how many they can sell. I'd love to buy one myself and support GM, but it just doesn't fit into my current family profile (three little kids) and my daily commute. With that said, if they can put her on a drastic diet (drop 200 - 300 lbs) and increase the horsepower (Z28 with an LSA??), I might be able to do it in 5 years.

But the real issue at hand is making sure it will still be around 5 years from now.

GM had hoped to sell 100,000 units per year. They sold 61,618. (yes, I know this was for only 9 months, but face it, how many do you think would have sold from January - March anyway?) Mustang on the other hand sold 66,623. This figure amazes me, as the rumors of the 412 hp Coyote motor were pretty well known for the last six months, yet people continued buying the 2010 Mustang theless. Ford hopes to sell at least 100,000 with the two new motors.

How is January looking? Sales of the Camaro for January of 2010 were 5,371 compared to 7,548 from the previous month showing a 29% decrease in month-to-month sales.

So all in all, I wish Camaro the best, but I'm scared for it's future.

[Steel2686]

I agree. The weight is a bit of an issue. The Challenger I drove was a really cool car, but it felt very heavy, especially around sweeping turns. I never had a ton of confidence it would stick on the road. I haven't driven a Camaro so I'll wait until I do to comment on how heavy it feels.

The major disappointment to me is the dashboard. I really dislike the layout in the Camaro. I get what they're going for with the retro gauges, but it's all very boring and small. Ford did a nice job with their retro-gauge layout. I'm into that dashboard and interior. I can't even believe I'm siding with the Mustang right now. I hope GM releases a Z/28 soon. Seeing me park a Mustang in my garage would kill my poor father.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

I was watching Motorweek (I think) this weekend and they were doing an informal test of the 11 Mustang GT, 10 Challenger, and 10 Camaro SS. It was visibly more nimble, faster through the straightaways and turns, "looked" quicker on acceleration, and "seemed" to stop quicker. Again, they would not reveal numbers, as the Mustang was a mule. Additionally, the SS was fully equipped, while the GT did not have the bigger wheels and brakes of the Performance Pack (or whatever Ford calls the Brembo brake, 19" wheel, taller gear ratio package). A formal comparo is coming.

One of the things that really stuck out in my mind was how dark the interior of the Camaro was.

The host was in the passenger seat and explaining the way each car handled around the race track. Well, anyway, while he was talking from the Camaro, I thought something was wrong with the camera. But, he explained at the end, "you'll notice how dark it is in here. GM chose to give the Camaro high door sills and small windows, which, besides from making it very dark in here and creating some difficult blind spots which are hard to ignore, unfortunately makes the car feel big and bulky. Compared to the Mustang, which is lighter to begin with, the Camaro creates a sense of bulk and heft without even moving, just because of the design of the interior."

As an owner of a 4th Gen., I've never thought of my Bird as a lightweight. But I've got to tell you, I've never felt it was bulky and dark. After all, when you're cruising in a near 4,000 lb muscle car, you'd think the engineers would have tried a bit harder to at least trick the driver into thinking it was nimble. I've never liked the look of the dash, and it is not growing on me at all. It's nice to talk about sexy lines and muscular, good looks, but in the end, you live in the inside of the car. That's the lasting impression you get.

I don't know my friend...I truly hope we are not seeing the beginning of the end. I had such high hopes... I'm not sure a Z28 will matter much in the end. Not with an expected cost of $45K (that's my best guess).

[Steel2686]

That's depressing to hear. Now that you mention it, the Camaro does look like it has the windows of an M1 Tank. It certainly helps the looks outside, but to me, I'm spending most of my time inside the car. That's where the looks and feel of any vehicle need to start in my opinion.

I totally agreeon the 4th gens. My 2002 never felt cumbersome or bulky. There was so much glass, I felt like I was on display at times. I even tinted the windows pretty dark (a couple shades darker than legal in CT) and it still never really darkened the interior that much. And my interior was black.

If they can refresh the dashboard and somehow trim the fat off the price a bit (I'm hoping against hope), I would love to give it a long, hard look. Until then, potential buyers might be better off looking at a well-cared for used Corvette. That's what I would do except, like you, I have three young kids who love going for rides with me. I need at least four seats. The Mustnag has become a very attractive possibility.

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

Well, I had to re-schedule the drive for tomorrow due to work and rainy weather. But yeah, alot of what you guys are saying are my same concerns about it. Part of me feel compelled to buy one right now if I want to get one, just because I'm not sure if they will survive for a few more years. Or for that matter, how much they will cost in a few years if they do survive. I have to say,though that I really do like most of what I have seen so far. It will be interesting tomorrow to see how restrictive the sight lines and blind spots are. My wife and went to dinner tonight with a friend of mine (Coop99Z who used to be on here every now and then ) and his wife. Coop has a new Camaro 2SS, and he said he is loving his. I sat in his tonight, though, and I was surprised again at how high the door sills and the dashboard seem to be. But, like I said, the proof will be in the test drive. I'll post tomorrow night and give my opinion on it.

[Steel2686]

All that matters is if you like it. The high sills give the car a nasty looking disposition on the outside, but you just need to make sure you can deal with it inside. Maybe being as tall as you are, the higher sills won't effect you as much. I still love the look of the Camaro, and the performance can't be argued.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

Coincidence??? Looks like GM is hearing us for a change.


"The fifth-generation Chevrolet Camaro has been on the road for less than a year in production form, but, according to Motor Trend, General Motors is already considering a followup act. The current model is based on GM's Zeta rear-wheel drive platform that was developed by Holden in Australia. While the Zeta cars, the Camaro and the late Pontiac G8, have generally been praised for their dynamics, they are not perfect. The platform is heavy and many of the originally anticipated additional applications have not materialized, raising the per vehicle cost in the process."

"Last summer in the wake of bankruptcy, GM showed off many of its upcoming vehicles to members of the media, including a new smaller Cadillac dubbed ATS. The ATS rides on a new rear-wheel drive platform that has been referred to as Alpha. GM didn't disclose exactly what they were calling the ATS platform, but they did tell us that it would be shared with the next-generation CTS which will likely grow a bit to better compete with the BMW 5 Series. Given the economics of building cars and the volumes expected for both the Cadillacs and the Camaro, it makes sense that the Camaro would move over to the Alpha architecture. One of the goals for all three models will be reduced mass, necessary to meet new fuel economy standards and improve performance."

The real question? Can they make this happen before it's too late?

[Steel2686]

They'll need to do it before the 5 liter Mustang takes too much of the marketshare away. That is one thing the Camaro has held over the Mustang in the last decade or so... Performance. The extinct 4th gen f-bodies STILL outperformed the 4.6L Mustang GT. That's about to change.

I hope GM can move much faster from design to showroom than they have in the past...

[Joe 1320]

One little factiod that you don't see in print......

What saves Ford is fleet sales. There are quite a few mustang rentals out there that add to the totals. How many Camaros do you see on the rental lots?

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

Well, I finally drove one on Friday. They apparently don't let people drive the SS's unless they are ready to buy. I wasn't ready to buy, so I drove a 2LT V6. So, I start it up and watch as the guages cycle all the way up then back down, then settle in at the current readings. Pretty cool. The exhaust note was pretty good for a V6 with stock exhaust. I fumbled a bit with the XM radio, but quickly realized that I had never used an XM radio before and after trying two stations that were really bad, decided I would rather just listen to the exhaust note. The stereo did sound good though. I think it sounded a bit better than the Monsoon system I am so used to.
Ok, the salesman very nicely informs me that the clutch can be pretty stiff and tricky. That was a good thing because I almost stalled it on my first attempt to get going. I quickly depressed the clutch back in and tried again. Much better this time, and we were off. The clutch reminded me of the one in the SS's back when I was selling Camaros in 2001. It has that sweet spot where it goes from not engaged to engaged with not a whole lot of play. Anyway, the car felt a bit big at first with the limited view and how low one seems to sit in it. We went out of the dealership parking lot and I was fairly disappointed that the longest length of the test drive route was maybe a quarter mile. Anyway, we get to the first stop sign and turn left and I mash the throttle a bit and am pretty impressed with the power. But, I have to stop almost right after for the next stop sign....at which I stall it. Twice. Ugh. So, after I must have turned 3 shades of red, we got going again and got back to the service road to head back to the dealership. I figured this was my last chance, so I , well sort of. I hit it hard enough to see how much SOTP power it had. It definitely felt stronger than mine, and I was very impressed with the linear feel of the shifter. It is definitely not a "mush-box" like in my 5 speed. It had a definite forward back, gated, sort of feel to it.
The body felt really nice and tight, although I never really got to see how it would corner due to the stop sign at each corner. All in all, I was pretty well impressed. I came to a definite conclusion about what I would want if i were to buy one. I know now that I want the V8. As strong as the six was, I know that it wouldn't be long after getting it before I would kicking myself (again ) for not getting the 8.
I also know that it would have to be a black on black 1SS, 6 speed, with the grey stripes but without the pin stripes surrounding the main stripes, the satin aluminum fuel filler door, upgraded speakers, and 20" polished wheels. I am undecided on the RS package.
The only problem with that is that I can't possibly justify buying one anytime soon. I am a few payments from being credit card debt free. Then we will have my wife's car payment and the mortgage. I am thinking the most realistic scenario will be another 2 years till my wife's car is paid off, then pulling the trigger. Maybe by then there will be incentives offered on them, if they are still being made. If so, I will be putting in my order and anxiously for the delivery date. Because that thing is a better car than my 2000 by leaps and bounds.