Breaking News - Camaro/Firebird Dead!

[EquatorHeat00]

Shouldn't 4th generation LT1's/LS1's start appreciating in value, and not getting cheaper, and cheaper?

[tclelland]

Shouldn't 4th generation LT1's/LS1's start appreciating in value, and not getting cheaper, and cheaper?

Generally, cars will always depreciate in value. If the car is rare (Firehawk, Comp T/A, etc.) you stand a better chance of having someone want to pay more to get their hands on it. Unfortunately most people are not car nutz like us. What is sought after and desired in our community most people just think of as a used car. If your car is limited production you stand a better chance of someone wanting to pay more than the "book" lists it at.

[markd79ta]

The last 15yrs for GM has been awful. Pretty soon, all of the old GM guys will be like the old Mopar guys who start every sentence with "well, back in the day..." Trucks...the IFS Chevy Silverado is the most useless and ugliest avalanche pos to ever hit the pavement; and I never thought I would say that about a Chevy truck. I am sure the next generation will be even more useless. The joke that is Chevy trucks over the last 17 years led me to buy my Dodge, and I couldn't be more happy...yep, lets rush out to give us even more junk. Cars? unless you can afford a 50k + car, then you are going elsewhere. I am even more disgusted with the Impala then I was before...yep...stuff a V8 in a FWD and recycle the Lumina front end and put that on there...I am going to rush to get in line so I can buy that one! Personally, I hated Mopar most of my life because, during my lifetime, they were all junk. However, they are light years ahead of GM now, and that is what I am buying. Bye Bye GM...RIP. The Ram and 300C get my vote! Here in Denver, 300s are selling like crazy. If Dodge would only introduce a muscle car, I would buy it and never look at GM again. I am beyond frustrated with GM's junk, and I am ready to move on. When I go to the auto show in two weeks, I probably won't even stop by the GM exhibits...no reason to...that's pretty sad. Sorry for the rant, but this company never fails disgust me more then I already am. They are so bad, even F.O.R.D is looking good.

[Rob B (shoebox)]

Geez, if you don't like GM, buy something else. It's that simple.

[markd79ta]

Geez, if you don't like GM, buy something else. It's that simple.

It is not about not liking them; it is about watching the things you like be destroyed by ill-advised execs. The people who have been running that company are driving it right into the ground. They are so paralyzed with fear that they keep bringing lukewarm vehicles to market. It is a real shame that I have 2k on my GM card, and my friends GM discount; and nothing decent to buy from GM. I settled for a used SSEI because I could get it cheap and my Roadmaster is getting a lot of miles on it (I thought I could hold out and buy one of the new RWDs in '07-'08)...now, there is nothing to look forward to in '07-'08. I knew I should have bought the 300; stupid me for thinking that GM management would actually do something right in 2007. Needless to say, I am a little ticked right now. I need to pay for the SSEI when I should have just jumped ship.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

It is not about not liking them; it is about watching the things you like be destroyed by ill-advised execs.

I think markd79ta hit it right on the nose! For me it is about watching the <cars> you <love> being destroyed. By the time GM agrees on how to "focus on their SUV and truck line", the trend will be away from trucks. They are always two steps behind. Look at their track history. They killed the F-body because consumers were moving away from sports/muscle cars. Yet Ford is going to break every estimate they made with sales of the "new/old" Mustang. Obviously, someone out there is interested. It took GM nearly 15 years to realize the sport compact segment was exploding. Now, they release the Cobalt SS that's miles behind everyone else in performance (think Subaru STi, Mitsubishi Evo, Dodge Neon SRT-4, etc.)

GM is "rethinking" their RWD program, while Chrysler is migrating all of their FWD cars to RWD/AWD. And how about this for affordability? $37,000 for a fully-loaded 300C packing 345 hp. Better yet, $40,000 for a fully loaded 300 SRT-8 paking 425 hp! And to sweeten the pot, they are putting the stroked Hemi in the Magnum, the Charger (sedan version of the Magnum or stripped down 300C), and most likely, the motor will find it's way into Dodge's SUV. When you build a great engine...put it into everything to keep the cost down!

Obviously, someone out there is buying it. While GM is finding new ways to make old cars better, everyone else is coming up with new models and ideas that blow us away. A Neon with nearly 245 hp??? Who saw that coming? Surely not GM. Heck, Pontiac finally gets a SUV and calls it the Torrent. Talk about POS!! First of all, why would anyone buy a SUV from Pontiac...remeber, "we build excitement?" They decide to put an obsolete 3.4L engine in it making only 180 hp! This in a 4700 pound vehicle! Why would anyone take a gamble on a vehicle that uses last years technology!! This isn't excitement...it's futility at its worst!

Ranting and raving...again

[Christopherrr]

Most of us here are GM diehards...I know I am, and I constantly take up for GM when they bring out subpar vehicles out to market. I don't know how much longer I can hold out...I love my Bird and all the Birds before it. When this one is time for retirement...whats left? I'd love to get another GM car, but not much GM is offering even tips the needle past "yay". Except for the Vette, which is probably gonna be out of my price range for years to come. GTO, doesn't do it for me. One more f-body and I think I'll be going else where for my RWD thirst.

If only this Board can run GM...

[SS_CarGuy]

I don't want to be the bearer of more bad news but here is another story that really makes me question whether GM and Chevy really know the right things to do. I feel like a lot of you after having supported GM for many many years. Right now I am totally disappointed in the company and will have to think long and hard about ever buying another GM product whether the Camaro comes back or not. Anyways, here is the article.............you be the judge as to whether this strategy will result in future Chevrolets we love or hate.


Source: Automotive News / March 21, 2005
-------------------------------------------------------
GM creates one Chevy look. By James B. Treece

Chevy brand -- from Daewoo-built cars to U.S. pickups -- will go common

INCHEON, Korea -- General Motors will unveil a design look for all Chevrolets, including North American nameplates, at the Frankfurt motor show in September.

It seems odd to debut a design theme for the Chevrolet brand at a European show. But GM intends to make Chevrolet the company's mass-market brand worldwide. Chevrolets are to be sold from Boston to Bonn to Beijing - and engineered and designed, in many cases, in Korea.

"Most of the product development for Chevy is going to happen either here or in North America," says David Lyon, executive director of Asia Pacific Design at GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co. here.

GM Daewoo builds the Chevrolet Aveo sold in North America. It also builds cars to be sold as Chevrolets in China, India and Europe. Lyon heads the design studios, including one in Australia, that will style those vehicles.

Those cars have little in common with Chevrolet's full-sized SUVs and other trucks. "In the past, Chevy has not had the consistent look that it should have," Lyon says. "Occasionally, we'd take a vehicle and put a Chevy bow tie on it and that would be a Chevy." No more.


Chevrolet's SS concept, introduced at the 2003 Detroit auto show, has some of the design cues that are part of the new Chevy look.


"We don't want to have a global Chevy and a North American Chevy. Really, we can get to one Chevy," Lyon says. "We've been working on what is that look. It's been a collaborative North America-GM Daewoo project," led by Ed Welburn, GM's head of global design.

Styling cues

Photos of the new look are not available. Lyon describes the front-end styling cues as having "a little bit of a truck influence." A large grille opening has no metallic grillwork visible. About one-third of the way from the top of the opening, a horizontal bar extends across, bearing the Chevrolet bow-tie logo. The logo can vary in size depending on the vehicle.

Previously, Chevrolet has used a similar horizontal bar across a large chrome grille. But the bar got lost amid the metallic look of the grille, and the logo was difficult to see.

"You've got to be able to read it. On some trucks, the bow tie gets so big that it actually starts to crawl into the open area of the grille," Lyon says. "That's cool. Big logos - man, I love 'em. Can't be too big for me."

The look also uses "very powerful, separate fender forms," Lyon says.

Some of those design cues were seen on the Chevrolet SS concept car. That was a large, rear-drive V-8 performance car shown at the 2003 Detroit auto show. GM recently decided to tap its themes for all Chevrolets.

The new styling theme was approved in November. In early December, GM tested it successfully with focus groups in North America, Europe, China and Korea. Next summer, GM is expected to hold a forum to introduce the look to company insiders, dealers and select media, as it did for Saturn's new look last year.

No cookie cutter

The styling cues have been approved by Robert Lutz, GM vice chairman for product development. Global marketing executive John Middlebrook is preparing marketing plans to support the look.

Lyon sees some risk in trying to find a consistent look for such a broad lineup. The design cues will be kept to a minimum, he says.

"There's a little bit of history to this. You don't want to mess from scratch with one of the oldest names in the business. We're not interested in being in the business of retro, either," Lyon says.

"I can't stress enough that these aren't Russian dolls or cookie cutters or that you're not going to see this exact same look the same way for 20 years," he says.

"We want to avoid 'Here's the Chevy rulebook. Now you have to put all these things in whether it works on the car or not,' " Lyon says. "If we impose too many rules, studios don't have any flexibility to do what's right

[markd79ta]

I don't want to be the bearer of more bad news but here is another story that really makes me question whether GM and Chevy really know the right things to do. I feel like a lot of you after having supported GM for many many years. Right now I am totally disappointed in the company and will have to think long and hard about ever buying another GM product whether the Camaro comes back or not. Anyways, here is the article.............you be the judge as to whether this strategy will result in future Chevrolets we love or hate.

OK, this is ridiculous. Yep, I want a Daewoo influenced Chevy. They are doing everything in their power to alienate their long-time faithful. I thought Chevy was going to make a resurgence with the SSR, RWD Impala, RWD Monte, Camaro, etc. Nope, we are going to base the division on the Aveo and a bunch of ugly suburban trucks.

It is painful to watch GM with their trucks. Again, they were behind the power curve; and didn't revamp their trucks until '99. When they finally did, they gave it lukewarm styling and left the IFS in it. How many people are going to be excited about IFS? ....maybe urban pavement pounders that prefer SUVs. Dodge and Ford put solid axles in their trucks. No wonder of the ranchers, farmers, construction workers, etc. want to buy Chevys. When the sales fell short, they put the Avalanche front end on it to make it as ugly as they possible could, and they still scratch their head as to why they don't sell. Hmmm? I wanted a new truck, but Chevy was out so I bought a used Dodge to see if I like it or not. Now, they are going to stop the RWD platform because the GTO isn't selling. Hmmm, could it be because they released a car nobody wanted badged as a GTO? Nope, '...it is because nobody likes RWD muscle cars anymore'...they should tell that to Ford.

It is so frustrating. I spent my life driving, enjoying, and defending GM vehicles; now I am turning into a critic. There are three cars that I needed to buy...a replacement for the Roadmaster (GM killed the b-body with nothing to replace it...after this announcement I am going to look toward something else); the Trans Am(GM killed the f-body with nothing to replace it...I am probably done with these cars unless Dodge comes out with a replacement); and a stout 3/4 ton truck(GM has nothing with a Dana 60 or equivalent solid front axle...I will definitely buy a Dodge to replace my '96) I have been driving my SSEI for about a month. It took me all of a month to get annoyed with the FWD unibody snapping and cracking strut car...so I usually leave it in my driveway and pull out the Roadmaster. With over twice the mileage, it is still far more solid with no interior cracks, snaps, and rattles. I didn't buy the 300; because GM announced they were putting out the RWDs in '07-'08. Like I said...stupid me for believing them; now, I am going to be wasting money on my Bonneville when I will most likely end up driving a 300 anyway(I am pretty annoyed with this). The last time I purchase a new car was when I got my '97 T/A; haven't looked since because everything I wanted to buy from GM was discontinued. It is very likely that they lost me as a customer after this stunt. I have been driving GM vehicles for 16yrs; nice job guys.

[DeWynter]

Well sadly GM is out for me. I have always been a fan of GM, but I cant afford a new vette for a fun car. I will most likely get a mustang if I buy a "New" car, yes its slower than a 02 Camaro/firebird. But its all there is for rear wheel sports cars in the sub 40,000 market. Its too bad but GMs leaders are not reading all the paper in front of them or even looking at the the trends. They seem to make half baked decisions based on bad decisions made previously. It will all snowball into an eventual lowering of GMs market share and being swalowed by Dodge or Ford. Its so weird to thing Doge was only two steps from going over the edge not that long ago, and now GM is seemingly on its way there now. Ford seems tb be holding stedy on all they are doing and I really like the superduty trucks that have. The new 6 liter deisel is a wonder. I will have to geve them credit for going out on a limb to put the triton motors in their whole line of vehicles (V8) and they seem to last well. They take a bit of getting used to but once you realize you can rev em sky high form factory with no problems they are quite a blast. Dodge now has the hemi again and seems to be eating all of GMs glory with the gen III engines. I cant wait for the hydrogen converted V8s, twice the power from the same amount of fuel

[markd79ta]

Well sadly GM is out for me. I have always been a fan of GM, but I cant afford a new vette for a fun car. I will most likely get a mustang if I buy a "New" car, yes its slower than a 02 Camaro/firebird. But its all there is for rear wheel sports cars in the sub 40,000 market. Its too bad but GMs leaders are not reading all the paper in front of them or even looking at the the trends. They seem to make half baked decisions based on bad decisions made previously. It will all snowball into an eventual lowering of GMs market share and being swalowed by Dodge or Ford. Its so weird to thing Doge was only two steps from going over the edge not that long ago, and now GM is seemingly on its way there now. Ford seems tb be holding stedy on all they are doing and I really like the superduty trucks that have. The new 6 liter deisel is a wonder. I will have to geve them credit for going out on a limb to put the triton motors in their whole line of vehicles (V8) and they seem to last well. They take a bit of getting used to but once you realize you can rev em sky high form factory with no problems they are quite a blast. Dodge now has the hemi again and seems to be eating all of GMs glory with the gen III engines. I cant wait for the hydrogen converted V8s, twice the power from the same amount of fuel

One thing is for sure; this announcement will help Ford tremendously. All those people for a new Camaro will start seriously looking at a Mustang.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

And let's not forget. Ford announced a couple of days ago that SVT is taking on a "new" project. They are taking an Explorer Sportrac and cramming in the 395 hp, supercharged 4-cammer out of the Cobra. The truck should be absolutely sick! The engine has already proven itself to be good for well over 450 hp with less than $500 in parts. There are many stock Cobra's driving around with legit. quarter mile times in the low 12's (I have one in the family). Sadly, now the Explorer will be kicking our but as well.

Not to be outgunned, GM announced the release of the Pontiac Torrent and Montana SV6 . OOOO...I can't wait

Ouch...I fell off of my soapbox again.

[markd79ta]

Not to be outgunned, GM announced the release of the Pontiac Torrent and Montana SV6 . OOOO...I can't wait

Don't forget about the up coming Chevys with the race inspired Daewoo engineering. ...that should light a fire in every enthusiast's soul! ...maybe they will find a way to stuff that 5.3 in an Aveo, and let her rip... I bet nobody thought that "Chevy, an American Revolution" was going to be literal!

[SS_CarGuy]

I want to set one thing straight here........I hope GM recovers and gets healthy again. As a country it will have a major negative affect on our economy if they go under or remain "weak" in the market.....look at the air line industry if you want to see examples of what's happened since 9/11. And....the Camaro may still be a reality even without the Zeta platform. Scott Settlemire (Fbodfather) is still telling us not to read too much into what we are hearing now and Bob Lutz is saying rear wheel drive cars are far from from dead at GM and even uses the term "nostalgia" in trying to explain himself about future rear wheel drive cars. But the fact is until GM really makes some announcements and clarifies what is actually comming down the road, speculation will remain rampant. And the more press releases we see that do not clarify things the more it will fuel the speculation rampage.

How I or any of you feel about GM now is our own personal business at this point. I can understand both sides.......meaning those who won't buy GM again and those hoping GM will give them what they want (or maybe are satisfied with the existing product line). The only thing that would be in the best interest of everyone, including GM, is to take a look at the fallout going on now as a result of these recent press releases and come clean with us!

Just my two cents.