any input on fuel injectors

[roastm]

i have a 94 z-28 with a stage 2 intercooled procharger i havent run out of fuel yet but i must be close . i put it on last summer but i did a smaller pulley this winter . i havent got to the dyno yet this year. i should get their tomorrow . any input? does everyone use ford racing or is racetronix & accell good too ? and also . . . how much power is to much on stock injectors . thank you

[paxton350]

some vehicle info would be real nice, im in the same boat as you dude, i just had my pcm reprogrammed for the timing and map for my paxton blower setup, which i would recommend if you havnt already from pcmforless.com which is about $115. i also installed 30# ford redtop injectors. alot of people use ford injectors because theyre cheap. accel, ford etc all those injectors are all made by bosch anyways so quality wise i think theyre about the same personally. im soon putting in a walbro fuel pump for higher fuel pressure which would be a good idea if you upped the boost on your procharger. how much boost are you running? if your running under 8psi of boost why are you running an intercooler- your only slowing the air charge and robbing your h.p. as far as power on the stock lt1 injectors, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? if the f/p drops below 35# than change your injectors and pump - your probably making too much power.
-chris

[roastm]

actulay if you run anything over 4 lbs with a 10.5-1 or higher motor, you should intercool before i intercooled mt intake air temp was 240 and knocked like a mother [EDIT] . however, if you run a paxton, vortech, or a powerdyne you are prob fine but especaly if you have a prochargeryou 1- have a supercharger that is 2-3 inches bigger ( bigger blower means more volume of air ) 2- self contained oiling system. theese both cause the supercharger to run hotter. and also ATI'S pulley system runs on the intercooled assumption meaning 6 lbs means 6lbs at the intake man. , and 8 lbs means 8 lbs at the intake , some cases the pulleys run a pound or 2 over. now that im twin high-flow intercooled i can run sock or near stock timeing.

Note from moderator: Do NOT override the language filter.

[roastm]

my intake air temp is with-in 5 -10 degreese of ambian. no kidding after a really hard beeting im talking like 1 .5 hrs of nothing but my foot through the floor the piping and the manifold is cool if not chilly to the touch

[fastTa]

how much boost are you running? if your running under 8psi of boost why are you running an intercooler- your only slowing the air charge and robbing your h.p.
-chris

No offense, but extremely ignorant statement. ProCharger's intercoolers only decrease the boost 2-3 lbs from the head unit outlet to the manifold at under 15 lbs of measured boost. HOWEVER, the major decrease in the intake charge temp not only greatly increases HP but reliability, and ease of tuning as well. This is accomplished by allowing the use of full timing.

Read and learn dude --> http://www.procharger.com/intercooled.shtml

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Roastm, are you using the FMU that came with your kit? BTW which ProCharger are you running? How much boost?

The FMU's that come with the Vortech kits and even the Procharger kits are not the best (actually they are crap).

Have you had a chance to verify the fuel pressure on the dyno at the FPR and output of the fuel rail under load? Did you compare the change in fuel psi to MAP values? Were you able to look at your injector duty cycles? AFR?

Chances are you are probably very close to maxing the duty cycle of your injectors out. The Ford SVO's, Bosch, and Lucas injectors are all pretty good for a high impedance injector. I like the Lucas injectors personally.

Even you aren't already, you may want to consider using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Standard adjustable FPR's use pretty simple and straight forward fuel maps to control the fuel trim, but when you get the rising rate FPR, you will have to program the fuel maps with the appropriate rising rate ratio in accordance with the MAP readings. Most experienced dyno tuners should be to easily accomplish this though.

Another thing you should do is determine how much flywheel HP you should be able to make with this motor at your current boost level. Then multiply that HP # by a BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption). It will usually be .55 - .60 for FI applications. Then take the number of injectors that will feed from the rail and multiply them by a target duty cycle of 80% (this will leave you some room for additional enrichment just in case ). Then divide your first answer (HP*BSFC) by your last answer (# of injectors*80%) and this will give a close idea of the appropriate injector flow rate you should have.

For example:

1. 500hp x .6 = 300
2. 8 x .8 = 6.4
3. 300 / 6.4 = 46.88 lb/hr

This equation assumes a stable fuel pressure differential of 43.5 psi. I'm just assuming you are running a stock pump.

[roastm]

255 in-tank pump . and i didnt think that was ignorant , i wasnt saying any offencive at least i really didn't mean it that way sorry bro. i do thank you 4 you help and i really am sorry 4 the miss understanding , now im just courious what was ignorant?

[Z Ya Later]

255 in-tank pump . and i didnt think that was ignorant , i wasnt saying any offencive at least i really didn't mean it that way sorry bro. i do thank you 4 you help and i really am sorry 4 the miss understanding , now im just courious what was ignorant?

He wasn't referring to you, he was referring to what paxton350 said about Intercoolers. And Kevin is right. While and intercooler may rob a couple lbs. of boost, the gains from the cooler air charge more than make up for it, along with adding stability to the blower instead of irregular boost amounts, protection to the motor from severly reduced chances of knock and room for more boost to be added down the road. Intercoolers play and even more integral role on a turbo vehicle, where heat is a larger factor.

[fastTa]

255 in-tank pump . and i didnt think that was ignorant , i wasnt saying any offencive at least i really didn't mean it that way sorry bro. i do thank you 4 you help and i really am sorry 4 the miss understanding , now im just courious what was ignorant?

Yeah, like Steve said I was referring to the bad info by Paxton350. Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I thought the horizontal line separting my post was fairly clear, but maybe not.

Any fuel presurre, A/FR, or duty cyle readings?

[roastm]

well like i said havent been to the dyno yet this year im sup.to have an opt. tomorrow at 5 so ill let you know but last year it was 11.2-1 with 4 lbs and stock JUNK pump. now its 6 lbs with255 intank pump. last year i put 350 rwhp with an auto trany a guy from procharger with the same setup as i have now , clames hes over 400 rwhp, soo i really hope to get their too but from an auto that would be over 500 crank thats a LOT on 24-26 lb injectors.

the car has a stage 2 intercooled procharger,255 in-tank pump, edlebrock headers ,borla ajst.catback,kennybrown dubble dimond weld in sub frame con. hotchkis sut brace, earl stainless lines , sloted crossdrilled roters, hawk pads , ROH zr6 17* 9.5 wheels, custom trany ( hard parts, kevlar clutches 2600 stall) fully rebuilt rearend mosier axles, richmond 3.42 gears eaton posiand new berings (my gears are very quite )

[fastTa]

well like i said havent been to the dyno yet this year im sup.to have an opt. tomorrow at 5 so ill let you know but last year it was 11.2-1 with 4 lbs and stock JUNK pump. now its 6 lbs with255 intank pump. last year i put 350 rwhp with an auto trany a guy from procharger with the same setup as i have now , clames hes over 400 rwhp, soo i really hope to get their too but from an auto that would be over 500 crank thats a LOT on 24-26 lb injectors.

You will probably be fine with a 30lb/hr injector at only 6lbs. The increased pressure from the 255 l/hr pump will help also.

[paxton350]

fast ta, im only relaying information said to me regarding aftercoolers on centrifugal gear driven blowers by craig at paradise wheels- the now owners of the sn2000 and previous supercharger patents from paxton. i wouldnt have thought his info was "bad" but according to you it sounds like its his opinion.

-chris

[fastTa]

fast ta, im only relaying information said to me regarding aftercoolers on centrifugal gear driven blowers by craig at paradise wheels- the now owners of the sn2000 and previous supercharger patents from paxton. i wouldnt have thought his info was "bad" but according to you it sounds like its his opinion.

-chris

No biggie, you would be surprised at how misinformed a lot of the so called "experts" really are. You will find that whenever companies such as ProCharger are so advanced in comparison to companies like Paxton and Vortech, they will always find some way to bash the company at the top of the mountain. ProCharger's systems are superior in every way imaginable to every other centrifugal supercharger available. As long as that is the case, there is always going to be someone spewing non-factual statements about them.

Don't always just take someones opinion to be absolutely true. I know it seems hard to believe that those guys would be giving you false information but sometimes it is unfortunately the case. Do some research on Boyle's Gas Law and the effects and benefits of intercooling and you will then understand the vast superiority of intercooling.