NFB...Latest Motor Trend covers the entire upcomming line up of SS's for 06.

[markd79ta]

The Monte Carlo in my opinion, is a really good looking car, but it is unfortunate it is FWD. That car with an LS2 and rear wheel drive would be sick.

The Monte is a great looking car and as a RWD with the LT1, LS1, or now with the LS2 would be in my driveway, but that means GM would have to do something right. I have little faith in them.


Oh, GMs quality is lackluster at best:

My 2000 Bonneville has a plethora of problems that plague the entire line:
1. Bad steering intermediate shaft design...mine has been replaced. (The part is on never ending back order because all of GMs 3.8 FWD cars have this problem...I only got mine from the dealer's reserve stock because I bought it from a Pontiac dealer)
2. The car is not water tight. Most 2000+ Bonnevilles leak in the trunk.
3. Intake leaks.
4. Bad TCC valve design in the transmission...needs update kit. Transmission must be pulled apart to get to the valve body along with the Shift solenoid sensor. My car needs this done so it shifts hard when it gets hot.
5. Climate control problems; window regulator problems, etc. etc.
5. The cars rattle something horrible, and there are more problems that I can't think of right now.
6. I was absolutely shocked to find all of these common problems at the Bonneville forum.

Yep, this is Pontiac's flagship...I would have been really upset if I paid $35,000 for it. As much as I liked GM vehicles over the years, I will never acknowledge they are in any way better or more reliable then anything else out there. Their quality is awful right now. With their mundane fleet and bad quality, it is no wonder that their sales tanked.

[Steel2686]

Actually, over the past couple years, GM's quality has risen quite a bit. They beat out Toyota even. This was just recentley. I believe there is another thread around here discussing that, but I'm far too lazy to look for it.

[markd79ta]

Actually, over the past couple years, GM's quality has risen quite a bit. They beat out Toyota even. This was just recentley. I believe there is another thread around here discussing that, but I'm far too lazy to look for it.

My 2000 Bonneville SSEi is the most poorly engineered car I have ever owned. I feel bad for the people who bought these new; I sure wouldn't buy another GM if I were them. On our f-body forum, we talk about mods and often the Opti on the LT1. On the Bonneville forum, we talk about how to keep the water from entering the trunk and pooling, how to pull apart and relube an intermediate shaft, the horrific cost of replacing the Torque Converter Control (TCC) valve, and what new defect is uncovered in our cars. We are constantly combing the recalls to see if some of this stuff will ever be covered The car is nothing but junk, and it is Pontiac's flagship. I guess it serves my purpose as a commuter, but the $10,500 I paid for it was $10,499.99 too much.

Oh, my neighbor owns a similar year Le Sabre who had many of the same problems...they are not buying GM this go around either.

[Steel2686]

I'm sure the Bonneville has it's problems. It's one reason they are doing away with it. I was referring more to cars that are 2003+ designs. I believe Buick owns the best reliability awards, but again, too lazy to look for it at the moment. I've had more than my fair share of problems with GM cars, but I saw big gains in reliability as I bought newer GM's.

Owned my S-10 ZR2 for four years without even a miniscule problem.

[Christopherrr]

Actually, over the past couple years, GM's quality has risen quite a bit. They beat out Toyota even. This was just recentley. I believe there is another thread around here discussing that, but I'm far too lazy to look for it.

I think for the most part...it's GM completely new cars. Mark's Bonni came out in 98 as 99 model if I'm not mistaken. Granted GMs quality might has risen in the past year or so...it's no comparison to Toyota.

I drove my GF's Celica and it's worlds better than my TA. Nothing rattles or shakes...solid. I've been in a G6...it's built better than a lot of things out there but choice of materials was dissapointing. I've been in a CTS and I was appalled! the CTS is suppose to be comp for the 3 series?! The STS is nice...

The only GM I've sat in and made me feel like it was worth what it was asking for was the XLR.

[markd79ta]

I'm sure the Bonneville has it's problems. It's one reason they are doing away with it. I was referring more to cars that are 2003+ designs. I believe Buick owns the best reliability awards, but again, too lazy to look for it at the moment. I've had more than my fair share of problems with GM cars, but I saw big gains in reliability as I bought newer GM's.

Owned my S-10 ZR2 for four years without even a miniscule problem.

Two years of high ratings doesn't do much for my confidence. I was so excited to finally have a SC 3.8. My enthusiasm turned to disgust in about two weeks of purchase. Five years is not all that old. The car was a new model in 2000, but all subsequent years have had the same problems. Family, friends, and neighbors had horrible luck with the 99-02 Buicks some of which were purchase based on my referral. My point is simply this. If somebody wants to get a Ford or Dodge, I don't think we can put the quality trump card on it any more. My next new car will be a Dodge...GM can't touch the 300, Charger, or Magnum. I should have just bought the 300, but I didn't want to spend that much money right now...stupid me. I love my truck, and I won't buy anything but a Dodge pickup from now on.

[Christopherrr]

Two years of high ratings doesn't do much for my confidence. I was so excited to finally have a SC 3.8. My enthusiasm turned to disgust in about two weeks of purchase. Five years is not all that old. The car was a new model in 2000, but all subsequent years have had the same problems. Family, friends, and neighbors had horrible luck with the 99-02 Buicks some of which were purchase based on my referral. My point is simply this. If somebody wants to get a Ford or Dodge, I don't think we can put the quality trump card on it any more. My next new car will be a Dodge...GM can't touch the 300, Charger, or Magnum. I should have just bought the 300, but I didn't want to spend that much money right now...stupid me. I love my truck, and I won't buy anything but a Dodge pickup from now on.

my dad drives a 99 1500 ram...got like 88K on the clock. i hate it...ABS problems, brake warpage, paint fade, transmission

GM build some of the best trucks out there...if I had to get a truck, it'll be a GM.

[markd79ta]

my dad drives a 99 1500 ram...got like 88K on the clock. i hate it...ABS problems, brake warpage, paint fade, transmission

GM build some of the best trucks out there...if I had to get a truck, it'll be a GM.

With the GM 1500s, you have IFS and inferior axles. They are light duty to be sure with a lot of expense and limitations associated with IFS. I would never buy an IFS truck.

Personally, I won't buy any of the half ton trucks. The RAM 2500 and 3500 trucks have the Dana axles, and they don't have the problems that your dad encountered. The GM heavy pickups still have the IFS. My truck has a Dana 60 solid axle front and a Dana 70 rear. In addition, it has the heavy trans and transfer case used on the Cummins since I have the V10. It has had two problems in 9 years and 111,000 miles...thermostat and MAP sensor. I just put on its third set of brakes...turning the rotors wasn't needed. It is a tank.

[Christopherrr]

With the GM 1500s, you have IFS and inferior axles. They are light duty to be sure with a lot of expense and limitations associated with IFS. I would never buy an IFS truck.

Personally, I won't buy any of the half ton trucks. The RAM 2500 and 3500 trucks have the Dana axles, and they don't have the problems that your dad encountered. The GM heavy pickups still have the IFS. My truck has a Dana 60 solid axle front and a Dana 70 rear. In addition, it has the heavy trans and transfer case used on the Cummins since I have the V10. It has had two problems in 9 years and 111,000 miles...thermostat and MAP sensor. I just put on its third set of brakes...turning the rotors wasn't needed. It is a tank.

i see...

[Steel2686]

Two years of high ratings doesn't do much for my confidence. I was so excited to finally have a SC 3.8. My enthusiasm turned to disgust in about two weeks of purchase. Five years is not all that old. The car was a new model in 2000, but all subsequent years have had the same problems. Family, friends, and neighbors had horrible luck with the 99-02 Buicks some of which were purchase based on my referral. My point is simply this. If somebody wants to get a Ford or Dodge, I don't think we can put the quality trump card on it any more. My next new car will be a Dodge...GM can't touch the 300, Charger, or Magnum. I should have just bought the 300, but I didn't want to spend that much money right now...stupid me. I love my truck, and I won't buy anything but a Dodge pickup from now on.

I am not saying no one should buy a Ford or Chrysler product. All I'm saying is GM isn't any worse than they are, and in some cases, depending on the car, they are better.

Chrysler was notorious for bad transmissions in their cars and light duty trucks/SUV's. My brother is the head parts rep for three area Chrysler/Jeep dealers. It is absolutely unheard of for dealerships to stock large parts like transmissions, yet all three dealers have at least two to three in stock at all times for Cherokees, Dakotas, and Durangos (older style, not sure about the new ones). Again. Just pointing out that every car company has it's problems. Some are just more isolated than others.

[Gary94Formula]

I'm sure the Bonneville has it's problems. It's one reason they are doing away with it. I was referring more to cars that are 2003+ designs. I believe Buick owns the best reliability awards, but again, too lazy to look for it at the moment. I've had more than my fair share of problems with GM cars, but I saw big gains in reliability as I bought newer GM's.

Owned my S-10 ZR2 for four years without even a miniscule problem.

Well let's see.... We have 4 GM vehicles... My 2001 S10 crew cab which I bought new is the biggest POS I have even owned. 39k on the clock and it has been to the dealers atleast 15 times. Our 2004 Impala LS had to have 3 rotors turned at 6300 miles. My wifes 2002 firebird has had a few problems also. GM has to do something about their quality, or I moght even look elsewhere. GM even gave me a 3yr/45k extended warranty on my truck because it's a POS.

AS for the new SS packages, I just got my copy in the mail and I am not impressed.

I don't know what I'm going to buy next. I was hopefully looking at a C6, but in the new HotRod mag they took a 2005 mustang GT and put a vortech blower on it and they really don't even have the tuning worked out and they have over 405 HP to the rear wheels. Even more with the intercooler...

I have always been a die hard GM fan, but this is concerning....

[Steel2686]

GM quality article