nfb: gto article

[wolfdogs]

http://www.aol.com/autos/article/14.adp

the one thing this writer is missing... is the "old crowd" like me.... someone thats had plenty of fast cars with that "whips and chains" ..."in your face" look...

now, this refined auto, that rides as smooth as a 75k bimmer...power on tap at any time.... gorgeous interior...with a "laid back" look... a "sleeper"........ is a nice change..especially at my age........

anywho...

[Steel2686]

That's the problem with these writers... it's not ALWAYS about flashy looks. Sleepers were around forever. The Chevy II was a good looking car, but wasn't "in your face" at all. However, I wouldn't have wanted to pull up next to one at a light.

It seems the writer missed the point of the GTO. People who know cars are going to be the ones to drive these cars. Not someone looking at BMW's and 350Z's.

Even the much more plain looking '04 turns my head.

[wolfdogs]

That's the problem with these writers... it's not ALWAYS about flashy looks. Sleepers were around forever. The Chevy II was a good looking car, but wasn't "in your face" at all. However, I wouldn't have wanted to pull up next to one at a light.

It seems the writer missed the point of the GTO. People who know cars are going to be the ones to drive these cars. Not someone looking at BMW's and 350Z's.

Even the much more plain looking '04 turns my head.

i have to admit...i wasn't thrilled with the o5 untill i found out about the sports appearance package, it does set it a step up..

[Steel2686]

I have to agree, if I were to order a GTO, it would have the appearance package as well. I think the car looks classy, yet mysteriously dangerous. Good combo. Kind of like the new "V" line of Cadillacs.

[soCalTA]

well maybe I am the odd man out but I agree with the writer. Aside from the vette and a few trucks they have nothing to offer and the GTO is a misbadging if ever there was one. No doubt its a scream but the price and looks don't have any buzz such that it is a must have car. The new Mustang has both and the Dodge lines using the Hemi (300c) has both. If their idea of retro goes as far as the badge then they will continue to have trouble.

[Steel2686]

well maybe I am the odd man out but I agree with the writer. Aside from the vette and a few trucks they have nothing to offer and the GTO is a misbadging if ever there was one. No doubt its a scream but the price and looks don't have any buzz such that it is a must have car. The new Mustang has both and the Dodge lines using the Hemi (300c) has both. If their idea of retro goes as far as the badge then they will continue to have trouble.

I don't know. I don't always have a problem with badging. I think the retro thing is being overdone. While I really love some of the designs i.e. the Mustang, it doesn't always work. I also like evolution. Take the Corvette for instance. It looks nothing like it's C1, 2, or 3 predecessors, and slightly like the C4, but definitely much like the C5. Still, I belive the C6 is the best one yet. Another example is the Trans Am. I would take my 2002 over any other year. It evolved from a great looking muscle car into a supercar-esque looking beast.

As I stated in an earlier post, the only time I have a problem with rebadging is when it's slapped on an economy car like the charger and nova were in the 80's. Sometimes a badge is just that... a badge.

[soCalTA]

you are right it is totally being overdone .. but the GTO has no visual appeal that makes you think of the GTO era or makes you think you are reliving the muscle car LOOK and Feel. Where at least the other two do. I think I would have been happier if they left the GTO badge off and stop trying to find half axx measures to sell cars...

[wolfdogs]

well maybe I am the odd man out but I agree with the writer. Aside from the vette and a few trucks they have nothing to offer and the GTO is a misbadging if ever there was one. No doubt its a scream but the price and looks don't have any buzz such that it is a must have car. The new Mustang has both and the Dodge lines using the Hemi (300c) has both. If their idea of retro goes as far as the badge then they will continue to have trouble.

actually, i used to think this way too... but the more i thought about the whole scenerio... it becomes a different scene... times have changed.. cars have changed... i mean, look at the grand prix! everybody loves those little scoots... remember what the old grand prix looked like?


has the vett gone "retro"..? does it need too? no. of course, production never stopped....

when you "bring something back".... should it always be "retro"? i dont think so... i think the "times have changed".... granted... the gto was a weird one to try and reflect "the changes" on.... but ....she grows on ya...

[markd79ta]

I agree with a lot of what this article is saying. Especially that the new GTO is not bold or inexpensive enough for the young crowd nor sophisticated enough for the older crowd. There is nothing about it that will generate any enthusiasm or nostalgia. All in all, GM ruined Pontiac with their stupid mundane cars over the last decade along with ridiculous market entries, and there is little interest in what they are doing. The GTO falls way short in many respects. The styling is outdated, it doesn't in any way look like a muscle car, it is an import, it is a McPherson strut car, and it doesn't have Pontiac power. I understand the corporate power plants (hate it, but understand it), but this car is totally lost with no identity or personality at all. The Pontiac faithful like me won't ever accept this car...there are just too many things against it. It would have done a lot better as a Grand Prix, Riviera, or a Grand National, or maybe a G12 since they are moving in that direction. There maybe a few people in the older crowd that like it, but that is far less then the 15,000 or so produced a year. Regardless of the engine they put in it, it could never serve my needs nor will I ever acknowledge it as a GTO. The long line of '04s and '05s are still sitting at the dealership where I live, and they will continue to sit and rot into the ground. I don't begrudge those who do like it; everybody has their preferences. However, this car doesn't even serve a niche market. It is just proof that GM has little interest in researching the market coupled with satisfying their fan base; the Aztek, Vibe, and GTO were horrible decisions, and really sealing the fate of my favorite vehicle division...kinda sad. I think Pontiac is doomed especially with the quality issues over the past few years. Their cars are so out of date and out of step with today's market that I don't see them recovering. It is sad, but Chevy and Cadillac will probably be the only two to survive this mess.

The parts of the article that I agreed with:

"The whole concept of that first GTO was cheap thrills for the young buyer. Safety, sophistication and creature comforts were not high priorities. Looking great and going fast for not much money were.

But Pontiac -- in its desperation to rekindle the flame -- has forgotten that the factors which made the original GTO possible (and successful) are long gone. The new GTO is very fast car -- but it is also an expensive car beyond the reach of guys in their 20s who might otherwise be interested in something like this. Those young guys are buying (and souping up) import sport compacts like the Honda Civic Si, Mitsubishi Lancer and Subaru Impreza WRX -- cars that cost many thousands less to buy (and insure) than a $33,000 V-8 lunker like the GTO.

And the over-30 guys? They want a BMW 3-Series or a Nissan 350Z -- something like that. Pontiac doesn't have the cachet on the street it once had in spades -- a fact even GM's senior management dolefully conceded recently when the brand was described as "damaged" by Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. In the mid-late 1960s (and even into the late 1970s, when the Firebird was one of the most "in" cars a guy could own) Pontiac was a hot brand, GM's "excitement" division."