need help with 1.6 rr - springs and push rods..

[LoudLT1]

want to add 1.6 rr with springs should i also get pushrods??
what brand should i get ?
self aligning ir not ? whats the diff ??
please be specific i'm no expert here..
any other stuff i need ti replace?
not doing cam yet
how mcu is this going to run?....
eddie

[Joe 1320]

It is my opinion that any time you replace rockers, you should replace the pushrods. That's the only way to ensure a proper wear pattern on all parts.

[94Z/28]

The only reason to get pushrods would be if they were to long or short with new rockers, pushrod length checker will tell ya. My car doesnt have an LT1 it has an old style small block and i dont know if LT1 heads have pushrod guide plates or not, im sure someone else can tell you if they do or dont, if they do you dont need self align pushrods but they do have to be hardened. As far as brands go ive only used comp cams stuff and havent had any problems.

[Joe 1320]

The only reason to get pushrods would be if they were to long or short with new rockers, pushrod length checker will tell ya. My car doesnt have an LT1 it has an old style small block and i dont know if LT1 heads have pushrod guide plates or not, im sure someone else can tell you if they do or dont, if they do you dont need self align pushrods but they do have to be hardened. As far as brands go ive only used comp cams stuff and havent had any problems.

I don't know how you could subscribe to that theory. The rockers and pushrods wear together. When you change rockers, they will have zero wear and when the two mesh, one will rapidly wear to "catch up" to the other.

To further answer the first question, non self aligning rockers care a bolt on provided you have the correct size for the rocker studs on the car. There are two sizes, 3/8 and 7/16, the latter being more resistant to flex. Most self aligning rockers will require some modification to the internal valve cover braces. Non self aligning rockers will require hardened pushrods and the addition of pushrod guide plates to keep everything stable. You should also replace the exhaust valve springs as with 1.6 rockers you are close to coil bind on the exhaust side. The correct course of action to do it right is to replace the valve springs and keepers, pushrods (add guideplates if non self aligning rockers), and I would even go with 7/16 rocker studs with the appropriate sized rockers. This would give you a very stable and reliable upper assembly. Of course you could get by with a simple self aligning rocker and valve spring combo, but you are gambling in my opinion.

[LoudLT1]

joe,
i trust in your opinion.
what manufacturer would you go with?
i woull like to get everything together..
just point me were to ge my stuff now
eddie

[dochidalgo]

LoudLT1:
Joe has resumed better than I'm going to copy here.....
Here is what FastTA (Kevin Grubs) has been told me since I want to upgrade the valvetrain.....PLEASE read...you will not regret it!!
"Hey Doc, LT1's use a standard SBC type pushrod. 5/16" diameter and .080" wall thickness. A 3/8" push rod is usually used in big blocks or heavy duty small block apps. A 5/16" hardened pushrod(CCA-7808-16) would be just fine for you if you wanted a stronger pushrod to go along with a 1.6 RR. The chrome-moly's are better but much more expensive.

The NSA(non self aligning) rockers(CCA-1305-16) are stronger by design but will require the use of a push rod guide plate. The self aligning rockers use a washer in between the roller and the rocker body. Either one of these rockers can cause slight interferance with the stock LT1 valve covers, however with just a few bends of the drippers on the inside of the valve cover you will have plenty of clearance.

If you are going to be using your stock cam, the stock intake valve springs will be OK, but due to the slightly higher lobe lift on the exhaust side of the LT1 cam, the exhaust valve springs will be close to coil bind. I think it would be a good idea to use something like a Comp Cams 986-16 with a spring rate of 296 lb/in which would be OK with your stock cam. It is very important to match your spring rate with your cam, so the springs will depend on whether you decide to stay with a stock cam or go with a bigger one.

GM rates the LT4 spring to handle .540" of lift but that is actually a little conservative. The LT4 valve spring has a solid height of 1.220". This is the height of the spring completely compressed. The normal installed height of the LT4 spring is 1.780". So if you subtract the solid height from the installed height, you actually get .560" before coil bind. So the LT4 spring would work as well but it would be cheaper and better to go with the CC 986-16's.

Unless you really planning on revving the motor over 6000 RPM, i wouldn't worry so much about going with titanium retainers and locks. If you changed valve springs your stock locks and retainers can be re used. I would replace the valve stem oil seals while I was there though.

Racenet Performance has an excellent deal on a complete LT1 valvetrain package:

http://www.lt1f-body.racenet.net/valvetrain.php
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Kevin Grubbs
Yes, the NSA's will give you much more effective lift at the valve which in turn will yield more power. Just remeber that these use push rod guideplates and you must use a hardened pushrod with these guideplates. I would also use the 7/16 rocker arm studs as well. They will not flex as much and again will provide more effective lift.
inner diameter of .870" diameter 1.25



CCA-503-16 Competition Cams Valve Seals

CCA-613-16 Competition Cams Super Valve Locks

CCA-740-16 Competition Cams Steel Valve Spring Retainers


http://www.streetillusionsracing.com/RR/rr.htm
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1.6 NSA pro mags, guide plates...clear valve covers?
Yes. You will probably need to cut out the web that supports the center bolt tubes on one side of the tube only. Do not cut out the tube or the other side of the web, or you will have oil leaks. The baffle for the air supply hose to the passenger side cover may need to be altered as well.

For the guideplates on an LT1 head you need 8 GM p/n 14011051
2 Valve Cover Gaskets P/N 10108625"""

And all this novel from Kevin and others F body bros here in this Forum:::
"i used crane springs (good to .600 lift) comp locks and retainers, comp r lifters, comp hardened pushrods, new timing chain, comp non self aligning 1.6, 7/16th roller rockers, gm guide plates, 7/16th studs, and new gaskets ofcourse. oh and i got tuned by pcmforless.com
The increased lift along with the decreased friction due to the roller fulcrum and the roller tip will give you at least 20 hp and more likely a little more.

One thing to note. The stock valve springs will be marginally close to coil bind with the addition of the 1.6 rocker. So while your there, I would do new springs and valve seals as well. This can be done w/o pulling the head.
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As far as the rocker stud diameter, my philosophy is "Bigger is Better". The 7/16's (4501-16 comp cams from thunder racing. $30.00???)are much stronger and won't allow as much "stud flex" as the 3/8's will. The less "stud flex" the more accurate the valvetrain geometry. The more accurate the valvetrain geometry, the more horsepower!!
The stock LT1 heads and GM Performance parts LT4 heads have 3/8" studs. Factory LT4 heads have 7/16 or 10mm studs.
I wouldn't recommend using an aluminum rocker on the street though. Aluminum is used in racing motors because it is lightweight, but at the sacrifice of durability. I would use a steel rocker arm for street use AmericanZ
You also have to use self-aligning rockers for applications that do not have pushrod guides. If you have guides (non-stock) you cannot use the self-aligning rockers.
The Pro Magnum is a very quality rocker. And remember what the other Kevin said, if you are going to use hardened or chrome-moly pushrods (which I recommend), then you need to use guide plates and use the NON-self-aligning rocker.

But if you plan on using the stock pushrods, then use the SELF-aligning rocker , and there will be no need to use guide plates
Comp Pro Magnum's for rocker arms.

Pro Magnum self-aligning roller rockers require a little more room than non-self aligning.

The GM guideplates should be fine.

And yes the lower part of the rocker stud (head side) shares the same thread pattern among the 3/8 and 7/16 studs.
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First, you need to decide whether you want to use self aligning or non-self aligning rockers. The LT-1 comes stock with self-aligning rockers. If you choose to use this type, then you need only to pull off the stock ones and install the new roller rockers. If you choose non-self aligning you will need to install new guideplates and hardened pushrods. Both may require you to modify your stock valve covers in order to clear the rocker arms due to the wider body of the roller rocker arm. To modify them, you will simply need to straighten out the braces on the inside of the valve cover so that the braces do not hit the rocker arm. There are some install guides on the net that show how to do this. Aternatively, you can purchase the composite LT-4 valve covers to solve this problem. These are also available from numerous sources on the net or your local GM parts dealer.
Well, you could get a lot of opinions on which is better but I personally prefer non-self aligning for moderate to high horsepower (i.e. big cam) engines. If your intent is to stay relatively stock internally, then self-aligning would probably suit you fine. I can't say what condition your valve springs are in but assuming they are still OK, they can handle the increase to a 1.6 rocker arm and stock cam without coil bind. If you were concerned about their condition, a swap to LT-4 springs would be an economical solution. Some people claim that the non-self aligning rocker arms are quieter but that is subjective. If installed properly, neither rocker arm should be overly noisy
installed 1.6 rockers on my car along with a whole lot of other things so I can't comment on what improvement may be seen on an otherwise stock engine. The stock rocker stud size is 7/16" on the cylinder head side and, if I remember correctly, it was 10mm on the rocker arm side. You can use a 3/8" or 7/16" stud to match the rocker arm you choose. If I was looking to do this upgrade on a stock engine, I would change the springs to an LT-4 spring (p/n 12551483) and LT-4 retainer (p/n 10212808) just for peace of mind. I would most likely use the GM Performance Parts self-aligning rocker arms (p/n 12370839) for ease.
1.6 Crane Gold Series Roller Rockers

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1.60 Ratio; 3/8'' Stud; LT-1 & LT-4; Non-Self Aligning (non-self aligning rocker arms require the installation of pushrod guidplates and appropriate heat treated pushrods but I got the motive gears 3.73 for A4 and they are (were) quiet as the stock ones. The reason I say were, is because I was playing around and launched kinda hard, and it sent them out of alignment a little. It's not motive's fault though. It's because I didn't replace the stock crush sleeve with a ratech solid spacer and it gave a little. Now I'm looking at the install price all over again just for a 20 dollar part (around 150 labor). Please learn from my mistake and get the solid spacer no matter what gears you choose.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...3&page=3&pp=15 ????????????

Hope this helps you
Dochidalgo

[Joe 1320]

Well.... that about covers it.