Lowering

[Jeanius]

If i drop my car 2 inches, without putting in the ADJ TA/PH Bar, LCA relo brackets and all, will the difference in off the line traction be major or could i live with it? I just started my new job as a personal trainer and building up clients is hard so i dont have enough money to get all the suspension parts, any help is appreciated

[raroZ28]

It is going to suck majorly, but if you're not drag racing all the time it's not a big deal. But if you're going to be running at the track, then just wait until you can afford what you need to lower your car properly. At least get the adj. panhard bar though, that'll make the car corner awesome. Lowered plus the adj phrm, nice combo... It's only like 100 bucks. FYI, you don't need the adj. LCA's. Just regular ones with brackets'll work. Don't know if you knew that for sure or not.

Personal training is a good field. My ex's dad was a personal trainer. He made awesome cash doing that. Upwards of like 70k/year I think.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[Joe 1320]

Basically, the results won't be pleasing. Once you lower the car, you have effectively changed the geometry of the suspension. The rear end assembly will be shifted off center slightly, hence the need for an adjustable panhard rod. The pinion angle will be off and would need to be corrected with the adjustable torque arm, there may even be driveline vibration without the torque arm. The lower control arms will now be parallel to the ground/ chassis and will result in crappy traction and likely some wheel hop so you'll need lower control arm relocation brackets. You will be far better off by changing the other suspension parts first, springs and shocks last. That way you'll at least be able to put the existing power to the pavement. You can do the suspension parts as funds allow. I would suggest lower control arms and relocation brackets first. Maybe add the adjustable panhard rod at the same time or second. The torque arm can be done next or when you do the actual lowering. The bottom line is that the suspension is a complete package that should be done for satisfactory results.

[99v6cam]

I didn't do either of these when I lowered my car and the only noticable difference is wheel hop (and lots of it). I just ordered some relocation brackets. The PHR will come later when I have the $$. I'm finishing up the suspension as my next few mods anyways, so it works.

[Joe 1320]

I didn't do either of these when I lowered my car and the only noticable difference is wheel hop (and lots of it). I just ordered some relocation brackets. The PHR will come later when I have the $$. I'm finishing up the suspension as my next few mods anyways, so it works.

You also didn't drop the car as far as I did. With a 1" drop there would be hardly any difference. A 2" drop and it's going to be more of an issue.

[jerrysta]

I still haven't changed my LCA's and I hook 2.0's all the time.

Makes me wonder how I would do with the geometry corrected......?

I have the same set-up as Joe. One thing I found was that I still have the stock shocks in the back and I've found that the car is still able to squat a little because of the softer shocks. I have Bilstein's up front. I think the shocks would be "too" good in the back with Bilstein's, not allowing the car to squat because of the shock damping and that I think would translate to the wheels..................thus............wheelspin.

Right now I'm somewhat happy.

I am making sure that the LCA's are done before my 388 gets dropped back in the car, that's for sure!!!

[casey02ws6]

I have been doing a lot of research on this because I will be lowering mine soon. However, I am only going 1" because I drive mine often and 2" drop + LT headers + ORY pipe + driving often = not a good idea. My ORY scrapes occasionally already (speed bumps and such). I am not sure if I will need the relocation brackets or the adjustable pan hard bar - I might get the bar just to be safe. The biggest issue I have run into is what is the best way to lower it. I was going to go with Hotchkis or BMR lowering springs and revalved bilsteins. I have since been told the best set up is Koni SAs all around with stock springs. Evidentally the front Koni can be mounted differently which allows it to drop the nose ~ 1". In the back you remove the rubber isolator on the spring and relace it with some heater hose and it drops the back about an inch. The guy I am talking to says that this set up will be so much better for the way I use the car - but it is a little pricey - talking about 800 for the 4 shocks.

[Joe 1320]

Makes me wonder how I would do with the geometry corrected......?

I've gone 1.90s on regular radials with relocation brackets. Prior to that I was getting consistant 2.05s.

[jerrysta]

I would anticipate I would hook about the same then...........that is of course assuming that the motor is still the same.....which it won't be at all!

Hopefully I'm hooking 1.7's or better with a set of Nitto's or BFG's.

Casey: I am going crazy with mine! For one thing I have the Intrax springs that Joe is using. This winter I am going long tubes and true dual exhaust!! Anything can be done with the proper prep I am beginning to believe. I have not scraped on anything up to this point. I amusing oblong piping like the IROC cars use and will tuck it real nice.

I am a little nervous.....it's problably your y that is the problem. That's usually the worst part. That or the collectors.

[Joe 1320]

I've done a few long tube conversions for friends. I can tell you that it's not the header clearance that is bad, it's the y pipes. The collectors don't hang that low. It's the Y pipes that have to negotiate the floorpan area just behind the point where the collectors sit. I did know of a guy in Florida that used oval or flattened pipes that had awesome ground clearance, but he paid a small fortune to have them done.

[Injuneer]

I have the same set-up as Joe. One thing I found was that I still have the stock shocks in the back and I've found that the car is still able to squat a little because of the softer shocks. I have Bilstein's up front. I think the shocks would be "too" good in the back with Bilstein's, not allowing the car to squat because of the shock damping and that I think would translate to the wheels..................thus............wheelspin.

But the geometry contradicts that. When you lower the chassis, the front mount point of the LCA on the body drops level with or below the axle mount point. That's what gives you the wheel hop..... when the driving force of the wheels is transferred to the LCA, the LCA pushes down on the body, since the mounting point it lower. The reaction at the axle end to the body end down force lifts the wheel.... wheel unloads, starts to slip, body comes back up, reloads the wheel, traction returns, body drops = hop.... hop.... hop.

If the body "squats" on launch, it just makes it worse. Body mount point for the LCA is now way lower than the axle end, and the hop should get worse. I get my best launches with the QA1's set to 5 or 6 (medium stiffness) in the back, 1 or 2 (loose as a goose) in the front.

The best launching 4th Gens I've seen actually lift the rear of the car and open up the gap on the tires, driving the tires down into the track. I'll get some comments about posting this pic again.... but look at the body over the rear wheels (those are 29.5" slicks).... its rising. That's a 1.30 60-ft.



This is the clearance over the tire with the car at rest:

[jerrysta]

Always good to learn something new. I always assumed that if the car squatted then the weight transfer would go to the back planting the wheels into the ground. I was hooking 2.01's thorugh 2.05's with the car lowered in the set-up I described above. I was happy with that. I never thought of the more advanced physics of the rear suspension.

Since the new motor will have a ton more power I am trying to concentrate on some of the other things that go along with that. Already on the docket are the LCA's and an adjustable torque arm. I'm also getting a set of Nittos or BFG Drag Radials.

So, do you think I should throw those rear Bilstein's on before the motor goes back in?

[Joe 1320]

Always good to learn something new. I always assumed that if the car squatted then the weight transfer would go to the back planting the wheels into the ground. I was hooking 2.01's thorugh 2.05's with the car lowered in the set-up I described above. I was happy with that. I never thought of the more advanced physics of the rear suspension.

Since the new motor will have a ton more power I am trying to concentrate on some of the other things that go along with that. Already on the docket are the LCA's and an adjustable torque arm. I'm also getting a set of Nittos or BFG Drag Radials.

So, do you think I should throw those rear Bilstein's on before the motor goes back in?

A couple of things are really going to help increase the bite...... relocation brackets and airlift bags for the rear springs. These help turn the weight transfer into increased leverage that forces the differential toward the pavement on a launch. You may find the existing shocks adequate with the previously mentioned parts. If not, you can always add them later. If you are really wanting the car to hook, disconnecting the front sway bar end links or removing the front bar completely will allow the front end to rise higher on a launch, increasing the weight transfer for even more leverage. Here is where front springs and shocks come into play. Controlling this movement is a key to getting an instant bite and keeping the tires planted during the first 60' while gradually letting the front end settle down for better aerodynamics on the rest of the run. If the front end drops too quickly, you lose traction. This is where adjustable front shocks are a jewel.