getting ready for top end engine build...advice?

[94formulaLT1]

Hi, I am new to this forum. From what I have read, this looks to be a "decent" forum. Thats a little joke, this is an awesome forum. I am 18 years old, turning 19 this year and i have had my firebird formula for going on 2 years. It is now time for me to build my engine. I have been wanting to do this for a long time now and i finally have a good enough income to suffice. I am going to start out with my engine on the top end. I plan on doing heads, either porting my stock ones or getting new ones. A thought on that, what do you guys...and gals think of TrickFlow heads? I've heard good things about these heads. Also, I plan on putting a bigger cam, injectors, msd, fuel pump, lt4 extreme timing chain, and anything else to complete this project before the car show. I need your guy's help. Can you give me some advice on what to do with my heads and what size cam. For the cam, I want something more agressive than the lt4 hotcam but not hotrod style agressive. I thank you for your help and hopefully i get some feed back.

Jeff

[TraceZ]

Lloyd Elliot can take care of you.

He has a stage II package called the LE2. It includes porting your heads as well as a new cam. The price is very reasonable because you get to re-use your stock parts.

He also has a stage III package for a bit more money, but I dont know much about that one.

Having your stock heads ported by a reputable person like Lloyd will result in better flowing heads than if you were to purchase LT4 or aftermarket heads and bolt them on unmodified. It all depends on what you want to spend, though because ported LT4 heads will outflow ported LT1 heads. So, if you had the money you could go that route.

LLoyd's website:
http://www.eportworks.com/

[Injuneer]

Unless you are looking for about 500HP, the best thing you can do is have your LT1 heads ported. The Trick Flows would require additional work to produce good results. The combustion chambers are 62cc's, intended to work on lower compression forced induction motors. You can have them cut down to get the CR back where it needs to be on a normally aspirated LT1, and the heads have shown great potential for 500+HP power production, but unless that's your long term goal.... a high HP stroker.... the biggest bang for the buck comes from porting the stock heads.

Look over the head & cam packages on this site as one possible solution. This guy gets excellent results and rave reviews:

http://www.eportworks.com/Products.htm

[94formulaLT1]

Unless you are looking for about 500HP, the best thing you can do is have your LT1 heads ported. The Trick Flows would require additional work to produce good results. The combustion chambers are 62cc's, intended to work on lower compression forced induction motors. You can have them cut down to get the CR back where it needs to be on a normally aspirated LT1, and the heads have shown great potential for 500+HP power production, but unless that's your long term goal.... a high HP stroker.... the biggest bang for the buck comes from porting the stock heads.

Look over the head & cam packages on this site as one possible solution. This guy gets excellent results and rave reviews:

http://www.eportworks.com/Products.htm

I will admit, compared to most of you guys, i dont know much about engines. I went to school for two years now in a tech school and i am working in a shop. Needless to say, im still learning, as you guys are too. But honestly, if i changed my heads, either porting and machining the valve seats, bigger valves, springs, rocker, basically everything on the head...then an oversized cam, a whole new ignition system from the msd kit to a aftermarket optispark, blaster coil, the whole "shabang", 58mm TB, bigger injectors, stronger fuel pump...and whatever else i would need for the top end that i didnt say, what would be the predicted horsepower? From my expirience, i would have to say i would be pretty close to 450, maaayybee more. Gimmy some feed back..lol Thanks a bunch

Jeff

[TraceZ]

Lloyd estimates his LE2 package at 400 - 420 RWHP on a stock 350 cid motor that has all the typical bolt-ons like headers, catback, cold air induction, bigger fuel injectors, etc...

Check out his website, it's all there.
420 rear wheel HP is at least 450 at the crank.

[TransAm95]

Hi, I am new to this forum. From what I have read, this looks to be a "decent" forum. Thats a little joke, this is an awesome forum. I am 18 years old, turning 19 this year and i have had my firebird formula for going on 2 years. It is now time for me to build my engine. I have been wanting to do this for a long time now and i finally have a good enough income to suffice. I am going to start out with my engine on the top end. I plan on doing heads, either porting my stock ones or getting new ones. A thought on that, what do you guys...and gals think of TrickFlow heads? I've heard good things about these heads. Also, I plan on putting a bigger cam, injectors, msd, fuel pump, lt4 extreme timing chain, and anything else to complete this project before the car show. I need your guy's help. Can you give me some advice on what to do with my heads and what size cam. For the cam, I want something more agressive than the lt4 hotcam but not hotrod style agressive. I thank you for your help and hopefully i get some feed back.

Jeff

18 going on 19 huh?...well i am a year behind you (17 going on 18)and can't wait to to be 18 and get a real job because "Hardees" isn't doing good enough funding the TA! Good luck tho on what ever path you take!

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

The biggest mistake you can make is going too big...too fast.

For example, the 58 mm TB is overkill. The stocker can handle most upgrades, while the 52 mm will suffice the rest.

Bigger injectors...maybe. But again, bigger isn't always better.

Bigger valves...not a bad idea. But bigger than 2.00 x 1.60 is overkill. If you're intending to build a stroker or add a blower, than I would say go for it. Otherwise, you'll be leaving power on the table as the increased air flow will hurt you velocity through the heads.

An "oversized" cam will wake up the motor, but at what cost? If you want to use this one the street, consider emissions and driveabilty.

As for the ignition system...it's pretty capable. If you intend to build a 425 hp car, the stock ignition is adequate. While it won't hurt getting a MSD unit, you won't really gain anything either.

Decide where you want to end up before you begin your journey. If you have intentions of later supercharging, then look at the 62 cc Trick Flow heads. If you plan on stroking (like I do one day) look at well ported heads that can be enlarged later if need be. A well thought out plan will save you money in the long run.

Whatever you do, make sure all off the parts work together. A poorly chosen cam on $3,500 Stage "12" heads with 90 lb/hr injectors and a poor tune will not work as well as a good cam on $1,500 Stage 2 heads with 30 lb/hr injectors and good tuning...get the idea? It's all about parts working in harmony...not necessarily bigger is better.

[94formulaLT1]

I see what your saying and i have all intentions to do exactly what your saying. But one thing you have to understand about me is i like soing stuff right the first time..this plays into what your saying as well. I dont want to get all of the biggest stuff and most expensive to, in the end, end up making less power than what i should be at. I do plan on putting a supercharger on next year. I do plan on putting a stroker kit in it...and nitrous is still up in the air, no pun intended..thats a little joke...but it is a possibility that i will end up getting atleast a 100shot to begin with. to put an end to the story, i will probably get the 62cc trick flow heads..sure my compression will go down a little bit but nothing drastically..i dont want to get the biggest cam out there...but a little more than mild but not agressive as in hot rod style, to much. I just want to do it right the first time with no regrets like "oh i wish i did this" or "I wish i gotten this instead of this." that is what i am afraid of. I know everything will work as planned. Thanks for all of your help and i hope i explained myself well enough. I dont want to offend you guys by asking for help and not taking the advice. I really will. Again thanks

The biggest mistake you can make is going too big...too fast.

For example, the 58 mm TB is overkill. The stocker can handle most upgrades, while the 52 mm will suffice the rest.

Bigger injectors...maybe. But again, bigger isn't always better.

Bigger valves...not a bad idea. But bigger than 2.00 x 1.60 is overkill. If you're intending to build a stroker or add a blower, than I would say go for it. Otherwise, you'll be leaving power on the table as the increased air flow will hurt you velocity through the heads.

An "oversized" cam will wake up the motor, but at what cost? If you want to use this one the street, consider emissions and driveabilty.

As for the ignition system...it's pretty capable. If you intend to build a 425 hp car, the stock ignition is adequate. While it won't hurt getting a MSD unit, you won't really gain anything either.

Decide where you want to end up before you begin your journey. If you have intentions of later supercharging, then look at the 62 cc Trick Flow heads. If you plan on stroking (like I do one day) look at well ported heads that can be enlarged later if need be. A well thought out plan will save you money in the long run.

Whatever you do, make sure all off the parts work together. A poorly chosen cam on $3,500 Stage "12" heads with 90 lb/hr injectors and a poor tune will not work as well as a good cam on $1,500 Stage 2 heads with 30 lb/hr injectors and good tuning...get the idea? It's all about parts working in harmony...not necessarily bigger is better.

[fastTa]

Jeff, if you are truly planning on stroking, blowing, and juicing this motor within a year or so, then you need to build the motor now as if it already had the blower and bottle feeding it.

This means that whatever power level you anticipate the motor making on boost and juice, you need to build a motor that will hold that kind of power. So let's just assume some very conservative numbers for a second. 380 RWHP N/A, 500 RWHP on 8-9 psi boost, and 600 RWHP on boost and juice. So you will need to put together a motor that is designed to make at minimum 700 HP at the crank.

This means choosing the right rotating assembly, compression, camshaft, extent and type of head porting, valve size, fuel system, driveline upgrades, etc., etc....

To really choose a cam that will make optimal power, you really need to at least have your heads flowed and velocity checked. It is always good to have your intake and heads flowed togther, but not everyone takes the time or money to do this. So once you have your head flow and velocity specs, you can then mathematically choose a dead on camshaft to meet your power requirements and satisfy your definition of streetability. Remember with a fuel injected car, you can go quite big on a camshaft and tune it to make gobs of power yet still remain tame enough on the street.

[94formulaLT1]

thank you, that really does help. I am not building my car and putting all of that money and time into it just to have a 13 or 12 second car...12 would be nice but i am a person who likes to get the most out of what i am doing. once i say i am going to do something, i always do it. If i say i am going to get a procharger centrifical supercharger, a stroker kit and a bottle of nitrous, you can bet your bottom dollar one day i will have it. I guess i know what i want in life and i am willing to work and spend time doing it. My car is my life and i want it perfect. So yes, i plan on making 600+ horsepower on a street/strip car. so if you could, can you give me some more info on this flow test your talking about with my intake and heads to find the perfect cam. The cam shaft is what i am worried about because it is the most important, or one of the most important piece in an engine to make it run right. thanks a bunch

Jeff, if you are truly planning on stroking, blowing, and juicing this motor within a year or so, then you need to build the motor now as if it already had the blower and bottle feeding it.

This means that whatever power level you anticipate the motor making on boost and juice, you need to build a motor that will hold that kind of power. So let's just assume some very conservative numbers for a second. 380 RWHP N/A, 500 RWHP on 8-9 psi boost, and 600 RWHP on boost and juice. So you will need to put together a motor that is designed to make at minimum 700 HP at the crank.

This means choosing the right rotating assembly, compression, camshaft, extent and type of head porting, valve size, fuel system, driveline upgrades, etc., etc....

To really choose a cam that will make optimal power, you really need to at least have your heads flowed and velocity checked. It is always good to have your intake and heads flowed togther, but not everyone takes the time or money to do this. So once you have your head flow and velocity specs, you can then mathematically choose a dead on camshaft to meet your power requirements and satisfy your definition of streetability. Remember with a fuel injected car, you can go quite big on a camshaft and tune it to make gobs of power yet still remain tame enough on the street.

[Firebirdcrazy]

I am working on getting my car all fixed up looking nice for right now. My engine is next yrs project. Got to get my funds to do it right. These are definately some good ideas I can use too. I really like the Vortech Supercharger so I am looking into that. Noone is going to install that into my engine unless I rebuild it 1st. The best way I guess is to do it all in one shot. Or should I rebuild my engine 1st with a little more power, and break it in a little before adding the supercharger?

[fastTa]

thank you, that really does help. I am not building my car and putting all of that money and time into it just to have a 13 or 12 second car...12 would be nice but i am a person who likes to get the most out of what i am doing. once i say i am going to do something, i always do it. If i say i am going to get a procharger centrifical supercharger, a stroker kit and a bottle of nitrous, you can bet your bottom dollar one day i will have it. I guess i know what i want in life and i am willing to work and spend time doing it. My car is my life and i want it perfect. So yes, i plan on making 600+ horsepower on a street/strip car. so if you could, can you give me some more info on this flow test your talking about with my intake and heads to find the perfect cam. The cam shaft is what i am worried about because it is the most important, or one of the most important piece in an engine to make it run right. thanks a bunch

The entire top end needs to work together. This means the camshaft, intake manifold, and cylinder heads should compliment each other when it comes to stuffing the cylinders on each induction stroke. This is important because when the intake valve opens, air does not just flow in, it decompresses into the low pressure, or vacuum, of the cylinder. The when the intake valve is closed, a reversion of a/f takes place back into the plenum. Air flow throughout the inside of the plenum can be measured in waves because of this, so it is important to pick a camshaft that will have the proper characteristics to compliment the flow characteristics of the intake manifold and cylinder heads as one unit.

Most reputable cylinder head porting facilities will have at minimum a flow bench, and in most cases the ability to measure port velocity.

When you have your heads and intake ready, I will be happy to suggest a camshaft for you.

[94formulaLT1]

all right cool, i am going to try not to make money an issue so that is why i want the best of everything and all of the right parts. along with the heads, cam, and throttle body, i would like to get a better intake manifold, i was looking at a lt4 intake? would you recommend that?

And FirebirdCrazy, my motto is do it right the first time. by this i mean you dont have to do it all at once, just get your engine ready for your "end" or last rebuild, like keven said. i am starting with the top end and doing it perfect, next year i am going to put a 383 stroker kit and ATI procharger looking about at 10 psi of boost, maybe 9psi and might be ending with a 100-150 shot of nitrous. basically, plan ahead of the game. i like the prochargers because i believe they are the only company that includes an intercooler for the air passing through before it reaches the TB. this is 150% better because the cooler of air, the more dense the molecules are meaning more oxygen. I was looking at Vortech superchargers, i thought they were the best, until i started talking to the guys i work with. so look into ATI Prochargers, i dont know the price but you litterally do get a better bang for your buck

Thanks for your help and i will keep in touch Kevin.