Which handles better?

[N20LT4Bird]

I had an 88 Formula 350 and sold it to buy my 96. I think my 88 handled better than my 96. The 88 just "feels" lighter and more agile, not as much body roll. The 96 has more suspension mods too, such as subframe connectors, hotchkiss trailing arms, panhard bar etc.. I dont know, just making conversation, anyone else have an opinion? 3rd gen or 4th gen?

[Injuneer]

The 4th Gen should handle better. The rear suspension is virtually identical between 3rd and 4th, but the 4th Gen upgraded the "strut" style 3rd Gen front suspension to the unequal length upper/lower a-arm design in the 4th Gen. Sould supply superior caster and camber control, and offer a wider range of adjustment.

If you are experiencing excessive body roll, check the bushings on the sway bar/end links. I found that just replacing the sway bar and end link bushings made a major reduction in body roll, almost like putting in bigger sway bars.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

The 4th gen was engineered to increase body rigidity as well. Since you're familiar with both you'll notice that the door and hatch openings are smaller. Also, the structure beneath the doors was reinforced and a stamped steel support was added to the driveshaft tunnel (I think that's where it is). IMO it's still lacking. I found that subframe connectors help a lot in that area.

[Mirroredshades]

I put Poly Graphite bushings on mine and it made a world of difference. I also put the larger sway bars on. The 96 now handles way better than my 87 did but it was all stock.

[N20LT4Bird]

My third gen had the poly bushings. My 4th gen does not; maybe thats the difference. I am not having excessive roll, it handles well; it just seems that my 88 did a bit better. Maybe it is the bushings.

[Christopherrr]

since I own both a 3rd and 4th gen...and both are bone stock, suspension wise. The GTA does feel a lot lighter...even though it's not as fast, it feel more alive than the TA. I'm not being bias or anything...but compared to the GTA, the TA feels cramped and visibility is much less. I assume the increase in sturcture ridigity cut out a lot of passenger space. Other than the fact that the 4th gen are put together better (virtually no sqeaks or rattles), I think and feel my GTA out handles the TA...that, and the GTA feel much more lively in almost every aspect...especially interior wise. I love em both....so whatever.

[N20LT4Bird]

Thats what im talking about.... so it may not be my imagination.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I'm wondering if it is a noise issue. I think the 3rd gens are a little louder and have more rattles than the 4th gens. That gives an impression of going faster. I also think the 4th gens have a more refined suspension and don't seam as if they are going as fast.

[tabahr]

I'd have to agree with Jeff. I've owned 3 different 3rd gens and also 3 different 4th gens. 2 of the 3rd gens were Irocs and all of the 4th gens have been Z28s. The 4th gen cars are twice the car a 3rd gen was. I could hear my Irocs creek and groan going up a steeply angled driveway apron at an angle. I could actually notice the door gaps change while jacking up the car. In fact the doors would rub a little if the car was not properly supported. Those cars were flimsy. I've jacked up my 4th gen cars by the jack pad so high that both wheels on that side came off the ground and the doors STILL opened and closed without rubbing, and the gaps were unchanged. I can even do this with my convertible 94! Steep driveway aprons have no effect on a 4th gen car either. If I recall correctly the 4th gen chasis is 25% stiffer than the 3rd, and it shows. Also, bear in mind the 4th gen is 100 pounds heavier on average.

The added refinement makes the car seem slower, and bulkier. Just like some others on this board have noted with the corvette compared to a 4th gen F.

on a side note... I am Very impressed with the fact my convertible has a full frame and an additional X member. I noticed this when I changed my clutch. Why werent these factory frame rails installed on all models? It would had stiffened the cars up alot more. They were probably trying to save weight, is my guess.

[N20LT4Bird]

Im not talking about "feeling faster". Im talking about cornering ability, handling. No doubt my 4th gen is better built. I definately agree with that.

[Joe 1320]

I seem to remember a test in GMHTP that compared an 89 TTA with a few 4th gen tuner cars. Pretty darn close in performance. The new ones are tighter though.

[Flash 97 WS/6]

I'm glad to see this being discussed, I had an '83 Z28, second-hand so I'm not sure what the prev. owner had done to it, but it was so much more "fun" to drive than my 4th gen... I'm certainly not talking about power here, just the way the car felt, especially in a power slide or hard corner. I nearly killed myself quite a few times in that Z because you could not really feel the road (like a go-kart) that thing was so flat in a corner you had no idea when it was ready to break loose. I also could chirp the tires in all 5 gears at any time just by dumping the clutch quickly, in my TA I have to really work at it to chirp 4th. I do think the 4th gen actually handles better by quite a bit, but the feel of the 3rd gen was unreal! Nothing like pulling the hand brake at 60+, getting the car to 180 and being up to 3rd gear before the momentum even allows you to start going foreward again. Did I mention I burned a LOT more tires up in my third gen?

-- Flash

[wolfdogs]

i ahted the handling on our 3rd gen......87 TA.... hated the lack of power also................. but the 94TA GT make me smille again...

[Christopherrr]

Originally posted by N20LT4Bird
Thats what im talking about.... so it may not be my imagination.

It's not your imagination...even my girlfriend said it. "Chris your new firebird is cramped compared to your old one","why is does it feel so heavy when I drive it?" I think one big factor is the steering, it's much heavier than the GTA...I could turn the wheel in the GTA with my pinky (feather light, but lots of feed back)...the TA is heavy, I notice it when I had to drive the GTA over the weekend the other week (that's another story) and jumped into the TA for the upcoming week, I was really surprised at how heavy she felt.

When I got the GTA weighed for emission...she was a porky 3800+ lbs...that's freaking heavy in my books. I'm sure the TA is much lighter...but the fact the GTA is more fun to drive is an obvious reason why I like it. Why? I don't know...

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Injuneer
The 4th Gen should handle better. The rear suspension is virtually identical between 3rd and 4th, but the 4th Gen upgraded the "strut" style 3rd Gen front suspension to the unequal length upper/lower a-arm design in the 4th Gen. Sould supply superior caster and camber control, and offer a wider range of adjustment.

If you are experiencing excessive body roll, check the bushings on the sway bar/end links. I found that just replacing the sway bar and end link bushings made a major reduction in body roll, almost like putting in bigger sway bars.

Yup, Fred hit it!!! There is a world of difference once these cars are put on the track...between my '90 and '97; the uneven a-arm design is vastly superior to the MaPherson strut design on the third gen. The problem with this is the lack of negative camber gain during jounce and rebound so it requires adding really stiff springs and shocks to limit suspension travel which is a huge problem with this design. I think the big difference you are feeling is the kidney buster like my '90 vs. the touring car like my '97. I do know what you are saying about the 4th gen; I always felt that the base T/A or Z28 rolled and swayed a little too much. The shocks, springs, and bushings are pretty lite which provides a nice comfortable ride (for a performance car that is)...change these out and you are set. The biggest complaint with the 3rd gen was always the stiff jaw jerking ride.

Anyhow, here is the suspension of the 3rd gen:
Front Suspension- Independent modified gas-charged MacPherson struts with coil springs and 1.3-inch-diameter stabilizer bar
(the uneven a-arm or double wishbone is by far a better setup - all I can say is yuck on the MacPherson strut system!!!!!!!!!)
Rear Suspension- Salisbury axle with torque arm, dual trailing links, track bar, coil springs, and 0.9-inch stabilizer bar
(same)
Steering- Power-assisted coaxial, semireversible recirculating ball with 14:1 overall ratio
(the rack and pinion is a far more precise setup)

I think the 3rd gen was right around 3,500 lbs compared to the 3,800 of the 4th gen which does make a difference in weight. I liked the 3rd gen, but I didn't like the MacPherson strut system at all which is also my biggest complaint with the new Mustangs which still use this setup.

Personally, (and, eventhough, it has leaf springs), I love the 2nd gen suspension the best, and they can be made to really run!