car wont start...son ova &*!(#

[94formulaLT1]

okay, like i said before i rebuilt my top end, everything except the intake manifold. heads, cam, headers, electric WP, opti cap and rotor timing chain, all new valve train, 30lb injectors, so on and so forth..and now i want it to start, naturally.. when i go to turn it over, it seems as though it wants to start...it makes that oh so known "im going to start" sound as it turns over...but it doesnt start...it kind of bogs down and stops. since i have been tryin to start it so much, now my starter went bad and the teeth wont engage so it just sits there and spins..so now i know i need a new starter..going to take care of that. but why s my car being stubborn? i remember i had the same trouble when my plugs went bad. same exact noise and everything. so i bought top of the line ac delco plugs. after i replaced them, about a year and a half ago about..it started right up. i did try to clean my plugs before i put them in my new heads..try cleaning the surface with fine grit sand paper and i also spraid them with brake cleaner, in hopes of cleaning off the carbon..but could that be my problem? i know there is something in brake cleaner, some kind of film..maybe that could be my problem..im truely running out of idears'.. read over what i said and think of something..ask me questions..anything to get to the bottom of this piece of crap car..its not really crap..im just mad..

[lavapearl]

A new ignition system might help

MSD---Accell-More spark and less chance of missing.

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

okay, like i said before i rebuilt my top end, everything except the intake manifold. heads, cam, headers, electric WP, opti cap and rotor timing chain, all new valve train, 30lb injectors, so on and so forth..and now i want it to start, naturally.. when i go to turn it over, it seems as though it wants to start...it makes that oh so known "im going to start" sound as it turns over...but it doesnt start...it kind of bogs down and stops. since i have been tryin to start it so much, now my starter went bad and the teeth wont engage so it just sits there and spins..so now i know i need a new starter..going to take care of that. but why s my car being stubborn? i remember i had the same trouble when my plugs went bad. same exact noise and everything. so i bought top of the line ac delco plugs. after i replaced them, about a year and a half ago about..it started right up. i did try to clean my plugs before i put them in my new heads..try cleaning the surface with fine grit sand paper and i also spraid them with brake cleaner, in hopes of cleaning off the carbon..but could that be my problem? i know there is something in brake cleaner, some kind of film..maybe that could be my problem..im truely running out of idears'.. read over what i said and think of something..ask me questions..anything to get to the bottom of this piece of crap car..its not really crap..im just mad..

Doing new heads and opti and not replacing the plugs isn't too smart, and as far as sanding spark plugs goes, that's a real bad idea.

I'm wondering if you have fuel pressure or if you left a sensor connector off. Even with plugs all messed up, it should start and run, although maybe not too good.

If not something like that, i would suspect something with the opti, since you had it off & on. A lot of guys have messed that up as well.

And quit blaming your car and point the finger at the guy in the mirror who sands spark plugs.

[94formulaLT1]

i didnt sand them down, just try to get a little better surface.. what about the brake cleaner i used?

Doing new heads and opti and not replacing the plugs isn't too smart, and as far as sanding spark plugs goes, that's a real bad idea.

I'm wondering if you have fuel pressure or if you left a sensor connector off. Even with plugs all messed up, it should start and run, although maybe not too good.

If not something like that, i would suspect something with the opti, since you had it off & on. A lot of guys have messed that up as well.

And quit blaming your car and point the finger at the guy in the mirror who sands spark plugs.

[fastTa]

A scanner is a man's best friend. It is not likely that lightly sanding them with fine grit paper and spraying them with brake cleaner could have fouled all the plugs. Fouled plugs are almost always the result of an abnormal engine condition and/or improper heat range.

Get it on a scanner and see if there are any codes present. Then you might have a place to start.

[94formulaLT1]

i bet there are codes out the bung hole because of all of the crap i took off like my EGR and AIR..my air conditioning and other things..the same thing is happening that happened before..my car just wants to "cough" as though its going to start but ends up not wanting too..back about a year and a hlaf ago, when it did happen, i did replace the plugs and after it started right up..i mean it is a place to start. i know my car is in time..the dots are at 6 and 12..positive because i was real funny about that when putting everything back on..as many times i had to take it back off. #1 cylinder TDC. i admit im new at this engine rebuild stuff, but im not stupid..i might just go out and get ac delco rapid fires.. or something. first i will check if i am getting spark to the plug with an old spark plug. after that, if i am..my next choice would be new plugs. there is probably something wrong with my engine because if i remember correctly when it happened last time, i got a speeding ticket or something, and i wasnt able to drive my car for about a month and that is when it happened..almost like if the plugs sit for an extended period of time, they go bad..we'll see.

A scanner is a man's best friend. It is not likely that lightly sanding them with fine grit paper and spraying them with brake cleaner could have fouled all the plugs. Fouled plugs are almost always the result of an abnormal engine condition and/or improper heat range.

Get it on a scanner and see if there are any codes present. Then you might have a place to start.

[Injuneer]

What are the chances you did not index the Opti correctly to the cam sprocket? Its a VERY common mistake.

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

i didnt sand them down, just try to get a little better surface.. what about the brake cleaner i used?

I guess I'm picking on ya a little bit. I've cleaned plugs with brake cleaner but only when I smeared some never-seeze on one or something like that trying to get it in the hole. The brake cleaner itself won't cause a problem, but it probably won't get off baked on crud imbedded int he porcelain. The only way to really clean a plug is a fine grit sandblaster, but if you do that, be damn sure you get all the grit out of the plug before putting it back in there. That method also roughens up the threads a little bit - not the best for aluminum threads in your head, but it works. If you just have to get a better electrode, then file it square, don't sand it.

My point is really, that since plugs are so hard to do on our cars, if you are doing anything except just checking a plug for some reason, replace them and don't look back. They are cheap unless you use double iridium or double platinum or something like that. Look at the labor someone would charge you to change plugs - a couple hours at $70/per - so the parts aren't that expensive compared to the labor.

[94formulaLT1]

alright i understand what you are saying kevin..but i did go out and buy new ac delco platinum plugs...only broke two of them puttin them in..damn header kept fallin..but sadly enough, my car still does the same thing..it wont start..now im leaning toward my stock 12 year old fuel pump tryin to feed #30 injectors..lets think about that, im getting ready to head out to autozone and rent a fuel pressure gauge and see if im getting enough pressure, i dont think i am..you tell me what you think

also..injuneer..how can i not index the opti and cam..i mean they both have a key way that can only go in one way. unless i am forgetting something..

I guess I'm picking on ya a little bit. I've cleaned plugs with brake cleaner but only when I smeared some never-seeze on one or something like that trying to get it in the hole. The brake cleaner itself won't cause a problem, but it probably won't get off baked on crud imbedded int he porcelain. The only way to really clean a plug is a fine grit sandblaster, but if you do that, be damn sure you get all the grit out of the plug before putting it back in there. That method also roughens up the threads a little bit - not the best for aluminum threads in your head, but it works. If you just have to get a better electrode, then file it square, don't sand it.

My point is really, that since plugs are so hard to do on our cars, if you are doing anything except just checking a plug for some reason, replace them and don't look back. They are cheap unless you use double iridium or double platinum or something like that. Look at the labor someone would charge you to change plugs - a couple hours at $70/per - so the parts aren't that expensive compared to the labor.

[Injuneer]

......also..injuneer..how can i not index the opti and cam..i mean they both have a key way that can only go in one way. unless i am forgetting something..

It is VERY common to make a mistake. The splined shaft will easilly slip into the wrong slot. I'd estimate 10-20% of the Opti's are installed incorrectly, in the VERY mistaken belief that it is not possible to assemble them incorrectly.

You will swear it can't be done wrong..... but the simple fact is that is can be done wrong, and is frequently done wrong.

[4THGEN Z]

I'll throw in my $0.02 CDN and mention possible bad coil....same symptoms happened to my car.

[94formulaLT1]

i got a new msd blaster coil

I'll throw in my $0.02 CDN and mention possible bad coil....same symptoms happened to my car.

[fastTa]

i got a new msd blaster coil

So it still didn't start after you got all the vacuum lines connected that we talked about the other night?

[94formulaLT1]

no it didnt but i think i found the problem..i made the oh-so-common mistake, that i usually do...i crossed plug wires on the odd cylinders..i was also told that i might have my opti timed on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke. so i i fixed both today and we'll see once i get the plugs back in. i need to clean them first..soaked with fuel and what not.

what would be the best thing to use? solvent?

So it still didn't start after you got all the vacuum lines connected that we talked about the other night?

[Trans Am]

also i would sugest checking the oil for fuel contamination, if you tryed to start the engine many times

I had to change the oil in my t/q after i fixed it when it wouldn t start, there was a lot of gasoline in the oil