Clutchless Shifting or not pressing all the way down?

[TroyZ28]

Hey guys,

I am trying to drive my 2002 Z28 nice since I am putting tons and tons of miles on it due to my commute. I typically put highway miles on it at 80-100MPH in 6th gear which I personally believe causes very little wear and tear. Well except for the lane changes

Anyways in the city I have a habit of up shifting w/o pushing my clutch in very far..sometimes almost no clutch. This is usually when I am 1st-2nd or 3rd-4th and I am just chilling. The shifts are very smooth and effortless since the RPMs are low. Does it hurt the transmission not to push the clutch all the way in?

Leme know,

Troy


Note Skip shift mod. If I want to shift from 1st-4th I do indeed use the clutch.

[N20LT4Bird]

First, I dont know where you consistantly do 100 mph, but hopefully its not on the road that I drive on, or anyone else for that matter.... chill out, better late than dead.

As far as the shifting goes, shifting without the clutch, if not done properly (meshing gears at exactly the right time) could wear the synchronizers which slow down the gears internally for a smooth shift.

[Rekisito]

I know nothing about why it would do that, but I have heard of the same problem on a LS1 Trans-Am

[tabahr]

The clutch release on our cars occurs really high on the pedal and is self adjusting. You really don't need to push it in that far to get a full release. Put it in gear and feel it out, you'll see what i mean. The clutch will not begin engaging until the pedal is almost to the top. If you are only pushing it in 4 or 5 inches, I don't see a problem, as long as it is releasing at that pedal depth.

Play around with it and see how far you need to push... I would never recommend shifting without using the clutch at all. A transmission is $1,600 bucks. A clutch is only $350. Those are parts only estimates.

Use the clutch, man. And slow down. I keep 2 young kids in child seats in the back of my Z, and NOBODY has the right to endanger the lives of my family members. You'll understand someday when you grow up and have a family. If I lost my wife or a child to someones wreckless driving or speeding I do not think I could handle it. It is simply not your right to put others in danger, no matter how good a driver you think you are. No exceptions. The idea of one of my kids or wife injured in mortal pain because of someones carelessness makes me seathe with anger like nothing else.


Sorry about the rant, but not much makes me as angry as people that think they can do whatever they want on the highways and have no care for the rest of us that want to get where we are going alive. Back off the padal, man. 100 is simply way to fast to drive among other traffic. If you don't slow down I hope to GOD you get caught and thrown in jail with a revoked license and impounded car.

Please show some caution for the rest of us, and don't forget to use that clutch! I do not intend this as a flame.... I used to drive to fast too at times... before the wife and kids came along. They kind of re-define what is important in life.

Good luck.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I used to do it all the time in my 85 GT. I almost always used the clutch from 1st to 2nd, most of the time from 2nd to 3rd, maybe half the time from 3rd to 4th. and rarely from 4th to 5th. The higher you rev it, the harder it is to shift without the clutch. I don't think it is a big deal. I don't think there is much wear in the synchro from it but it does tend to round the corner on the inside of the gear. The outside actually doesn't wear. It's the inside that engages with idler shaft. The gears are about $80 a piece. When I took my T5 apart with 175,000, you could not hardly tell on 3rd, 4th and 5th gear. 2nd I could tell but the problem was a broken synchro. About 1/3rd of the clutch material actually fell off. Bad glue job I guess.

I asked that question of a friend of mine who drove tractor trailers on the side. He said the truck he drove had 13 forward gears and did I really think that they used the clutch every time. LOL

[TroyZ28]

100MPH

I hit that speed occasionally on a 4 lane highway thats devided by a concreat wall. And only when there is atleast 1/4 mile or so of clear lanes. My brakes are in perfect condition and my tires are good.

Would you rather have a -25 yo kid driving his FWD ricemobile at 85 swearving in and out of traffic or a 30+yo me at 90? I will garrantee you my RPM will barely crack 2000.

[00 Ragtop Z]

Sorry, I have to agree with Tobahr. And, if you are cracking 2000 rpm with a six speed, you are NOT running 80 MPH. At 75 MPH, my Ragtop pulls 1700 RPM tops. I would rather not have anyone, no matter what age, doing 90 on any US highway.

[Rekisito]

You guys would hate me then ! haha, but I do understand what you're saying.

[Flash 97 WS/6]

Safe speeds almost always depend on the situation IMHO, I have some highway areas around here that are very conducive to 90+ mph cruzing at least at some times of the day. I can see how this would not seem possible to people from more populated areas. These are strips of highway where even the soccer moms and BMW exec. types are running 90....just feels right and ONLY when there is little to no other traffic. I do naturally slow down when approaching another car moving slower....

Back to the original question.... I have driven quite a few cars many, MANY miles with clutch-less "lazy shifting", as far as I can tell you don't do much if any damage as long as you naturally let the engine reach the proper RPM for the gear you are moving into before applying pressure to move the shifter into the next gear. If you think about it, as long as the gears are at the same speed as the counter shaft at the time you begin to try to mesh them, there is not any difference between this and using the clutch. I would not recommend downshifting without the clutch although I have done it and the same rule applies, get the engine RPM right and it will just "slip right in". I also have gotten input from some long-haul truckers that say they have been doing clutch-less "lazy" shifting for years without any problems.

Just IMHO, it's ok. Just never apply significant force.

Maximum cash value $0.02....

-- Flash (GO CHIEFS!!!! 34 years is long enough!!!)

[Torque]

I agree that matching revs will allow for a clutchless shift but if you are going to go to that much effort, why not just push in the clutch? Is it really that hard to do? It's never really seemed to bother me that much...

As far as the speeding goes, definitely don't like it when people are excessive or dangerous. Even when I was a little more aggressive in the younger years I would never speed through traffic, you never know what could happen.

On a different note, I do live in CA and on 280, and even I-5 in some places for that matter, if you are not going at least 80/90 (depending on the time of day and amount of traffic) you are definitely going below the average speed. I agree that the faster you go the more risk there is, however, differences in speed of various vehicles on the road also poses danger so when everyones moving along pretty good its dangerous but less so than when there are 20-30mph differences in speed among vehicles.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by 00 Ragtop Z
Sorry, I have to agree with Tobahr. And, if you are cracking 2000 rpm with a six speed, you are NOT running 80 MPH. At 75 MPH, my Ragtop pulls 1700 RPM tops. I would rather not have anyone, no matter what age, doing 90 on any US highway.

I am the first one to get on my soapbox about driving too fast in traffic. Although, I am surprised that you would say (any) highway living in Nebraska. Living in Colorado, I have driven on many interstates alone with no traffic especially on my trips from Colorado to Washington state. If I am in Denver, my home, I drive the speed limit. If I am in the middle of nowhere with nobody on the road surrounded by weeds and cactus, I exceed the speed limit. My fiancee's parents live out towards Limon, and we drive 85 out there. Even thinking back to my first trek to Washington with my parents to go to college in '90, both my 60+ year old mother and father did 80-85 in the Lincoln Town Car. There are some stretches of road that I drive 95 on that trip. When night falls, it is back down to 75...the typical speed limit in this region. To be honest, the police expect this. Coming back from Grand Junction, CO, I was having a lot of fun with the '79 running that thing well over 100. However, as soon as I saw glimpse of traffic ahead, I slowed to the speed limit. I did this for awhile not knowing I was being tracked by the sheriff's office. I was finally pulled over, crapping my shorts, asked if I knew why I was being stopped, said I was going too fast, and let go with a warning. Since I was not speeding in traffic, they let it go. Back when the posted speed limit was 65, the police basically just monitored traffic on these roads. I was driving through Wyoming in my old '75 T/A at about 85 when a cop came out of no where, got in front of me, slowed me to about '77ish, and took off again. I think it is a judgement call. In the western states, it is just about mind numbing to drive the speed limit in some of the desolate terrain. In the cities, yes, obey the speed limit.

[markd79ta]

To answer your question, double-clutching as been around for a long time. It is not necessary to use a clutch if you know how to shift it when the RPMs are falling between shifts. All of the drivers in the big rigs use this method. I learned from my brother-in-law who never uses a clutch when he drives his big utility trucks (he is a journeyman for an electric company and rancher.) I rarely used it in my Blazer. I don't use this method in the T/A though. I really don't want to screw up in that car. A couple of times in the Blazer, when I wasn't paying attention, I missed the shift, but that thing is far more heavy duty and bullet proof then my T/A.

[Christopherrr]

off the subject a lil...but in Atlanta(suburbs really), you can see 90+ commutes all day. I85 north from Newnan...i cruise at 85 next to the fast lane. Georgians are notorious for autobahn speeds...guess that's why we see 5-6-7-8-15 wrecks a day.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

No kidding. People think I85 means 85 MPH. US400 is nicknamed the autobahn. Back in my young and stupid days I had the cruise in my 85GT set on 125. That was in 1987 when 400 was in the country. I usually set the cruise on 70 on the expressway now and try not to get hit.

State Farm did a survey several years ago and found that it isn't speed that causes accident. It's speed differential that causes them. It's when a pack of cars doing 75 runs up on a car doing 55.

Another interesting fact is there are less accidents per 1000 cars on the autobahn than per 1000 in the states. Less fatal included. They do a lot of smart things. No cell phones. No driving in the fast lane unless passing. No passing on the right. However they are having the urban sprawl problem there too. I have seen traffic jams there that look like rush hour in Atlanta.

[Mark B]

I know where you can do 80-85 while waving at a cop. If you are in Florida on I95, the speed limit is 80MPH in certain areas!!!! I was loving that last time I drove down there!!!!!