Traction, wider street tires

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Has anyone upgraded from stock 245s on salad shooters to 275/285/305 or greater? I'm wondering what kind of difference there is. I finally got on the throttle today with the new setup and stall, and traction was a complete joke. I didn't think 245s were that bad. It spun all the way through first, even letting off and trying to gradually put it WOT. When it hit the 1-2 shift, it did the same thing, got sideways and spun until I let off. It was slightly uphill though.

I used to have LCA relo brackets, but the 9" rear was a different configuration. I don't know if new relo brackets would help (I thought it just helps wheel hop), or if I just need wider tires. Thanks in advance.

[msfyter]

295/35/18 Firehawk tires on a 18"x 10.5' rim. I hook up pretty good but can still spin em if I have to.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture578.jpg

[Joe 1320]

315/35/17 and I could still spin. The wider footprint of the 16 and 17" radials is actually more suited for side loads encoundered in road racing. The contact patch is wider rather than longer. if you want good dragstrip traction, a taller tire and subsequent reduction of gear will give you the kind of traction you want. You'll lose some traction in cornering, but it's made up at the dragstrip.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Thanks guys.

Msfyter, what kind of 60' times do you pull with them?

Joe, do you think that the 245s then are better for drag racing, but I just need a better tire? I'm currently running Dayton Daytonas in the rear, maybe 5 years old, but tons of tread left (about 3/4 left). I have Firehawks in the front because I destroyed my front tires with the new k-member and no alignment for 1000 miles. So I have a mismatch, and maybe I should try the firehawks in the rear? Or maybe I could just forget all of the street traction and get the BFG drag radial for the track. There's no way I would ever hook with better than a 2.4 60' with these current tires.

[msfyter]

Ive actually hadnt drag raced this camaro yet. I tried last week for the first time but the track was to windy. I prefer to drag race with 16" rims/tires/drag radials. My set up is more for handling right now. But the firehawk tires have a great bite. On the street I rarely will break traction.

[Joe 1320]

Thanks guys.

Msfyter, what kind of 60' times do you pull with them?

Joe, do you think that the 245s then are better for drag racing, but I just need a better tire? I'm currently running Dayton Daytonas in the rear, maybe 5 years old, but tons of tread left (about 3/4 left). I have Firehawks in the front because I destroyed my front tires with the new k-member and no alignment for 1000 miles. So I have a mismatch, and maybe I should try the firehawks in the rear? Or maybe I could just forget all of the street traction and get the BFG drag radial for the track. There's no way I would ever hook with better than a 2.4 60' with these current tires.

I would go with a 255/50/16 in the softest and hardest hooking DOT drag radial or slick possible. The slightly taller tire produces a longer contact patch from front to rear, that is what will significantly affect straight line performance in both acceleration and braking.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Thanks Joe. I guess I'll just move the Firehawks to the rear and live with the poor street traction for my commuting. Then I'll switch out to drag radials when it's track time.

Today, I got on it because there was some jerk in a Lexus who was trying to cut off a row of cars that waited a long time at the light. I was tired of this happening, so I got on the throttle and spun all way the 65, even peddling. The 1-2 shift was a joke - no more chirping, it was spinning just like flooring it from a stop.

[ConElite]

Run some Nitto Dr's for Daily driving. They offer great traction for the money. For Drag strip I would recommend the M/T ET streets.

I used to run 255/50R16 and I would Spin Second in a hard shift. Now I have 275-40R17's and but they are super cheap tires but yes I spin like crazy still.

I mounted my M/T 255-45R16's and When I shift into second, I barely get even a Chirp!!!

So Its your call.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Wow, thanks - Nitto DR's actually have a treadwear rating too. I only looked at the BFG's which were 0BC. The Nittos are 100AA. Not great but considering my 300AA current tires have lasted over 5 years, 30k without showing hardly any wear (they were only rear tires only), the Nittos are awfully tempting. At least as a summer tire, if not the whole year.

[Trash man]

Wow, thanks - Nitto DR's actually have a treadwear rating too. I only looked at the BFG's which were 0BC. The Nittos are 100AA. Not great but considering my 300AA current tires have lasted over 5 years, 30k without showing hardly any wear (they were only rear tires only), the Nittos are awfully tempting. At least as a summer tire, if not the whole year.

just becareful cuz in the went, DRs arent known for the easiest time. get a spare set of rims.

[1slo_camaro]

hey just my two pennies. i had a set of 275 45 17 riken raptors and at about 150 a pair or so. they did pretty good. and were a good driver to i drove up and down I-95 two hours every weekend and around town and not a prbolem at all and tread wear was nice. overall a good tire in my opinion

[AmericanZ28]

I second the Nitto Dr's. Great price, great look, and great traction! M/T DR's will probably grip better, but are pricier. Mstyfyer, you went to California Speedway last week?

[Wild Willy]

I am almost beginning to think that the type of tire makes more difference than the size- I have, over the years run on the Camaro:
235/55-16 Goodyears that came stock
255/50-16 Khumos, cheap replacements
285/40-17 BF Goodrich high-perf summer tires
245/50-16 Goodyear RSA- police spec tires that came on some spare wheels-

The 235 goodyears really stuck good- they came stock, can't recall the exact model-
Khumos were so-so- about worth what I paid, not much Some version of Ecsta-
The BF Goodrich were the G-force TA- KD, "killer dry"- hard to spin at all on warm, dry pavement, not so good in cold, scary when wet
Goodyear RSA's- similar to the BFG's- pretty good in dry warm conditions- loose in the freezing temps, and scary in the wet-

You can spend the money for sticky tires- they will make a difference under some conditions- but probably won't wear very well, and may not be good if it rains where you are-

Wider low-profile tires may make your car 'hunt' and follow ruts in the pavement, the steering may no feel so good, though the stickiness may make it worth the decrease in feel- up to you-

Ask me again in the spring- I have some Cooper Xeons in 275/40-17, for spring weather-

[Injuneer]

Agreed.... the specific tire model (tread compound) is more important than the size. My 94 came from the factory with the 245 Goodyear GS-C's. Not a lot of traction problems. Went to the 17" wheels with the 275/40-17 (there is no 275/45-17 size) GS-C's and it hooked great on the street.

With regard to running drag radials on the street, the Nitto's are the only ones you want to consider doing that with. The general relative ratings:

Best drag traction:
-M/T ET Street Radials
-BFG Drag Radials
-Nitto 555R Drag Radials

Wet traction:
-Nitto (decent)
-BFG (not so good)
-M/T (poor)

And that's with the full "new", very thin tread. They wear rapidly, and as they wear become very prone to hydroplaning.

The fact that your current tires have lasted 30,000 miles on the back, and have a "300" tread wear rating may indicate that they are a fairly hard tread compound, and that may be why they hook so poorly.

[Joe 1320]

There are alot of good points. What needs to be considered is that contact patch shape IS just as important as the compound of the tire. You will find that a 255/60/15 will give you better dragstrip traction than a 255/40/17, even though the 255mm section width is in theory, the same size. When taken to the extreme, look at a serious drag setup. The tire sidewalls are tall and soft to allow wrap up, the overall tire height is tall (as well as wide) and they hook like a demon. look at the average road race car. The tire hights are much shorter with reduced sidewall height and increased stiffness. Two opposite ends of performance racing, but a clear indication of the direction needed to go for a [particular desired effect.

Note Fred's ride. Those back tires are tall for a few specific reasons and those reasons result in straight line traction. Don't try road racing with a setup like that!

Granted, we are probably splitting hairs...... but there is a science to it and everything else being equal, a softer tread compound will hook better than a harder one. So in short, a drag radial will give you better dry traction than a standard street radial. Increasing contact patch in a sideways bias will aid in cornering but decrease available traction in a straight line, increasing contact patch bias from front to back will increase available drag strip traction at the expense of cornering. Coming up with an acceptable mix between the two for the street will always prove to be a challenge.