Headers revisited

[Z Ya Later]

So, after constantly having to deal with problems from the Pacesetter headers, I'm looking at ditching them. Its kind of annoying, as I'm sure you all can understand, but I'm done sinking money into headers that are just constantly blowing collecting gaskets (Y-pipe primaries don't line up to header collectors) and the very bad placement of the #5 primary in relation to the steering shaft. So, after doing a little bit of looking around, these are the ones that I'm looking at. I'd look at LTs, but, as the location says, I'm in the People's Republic of California. lol

First choice - Hooker, #2060-1HKR - C.A.R.B. approved, tuned ports, ceramic coated, moderate cost

Second choice - BBK, #15960 - C.A.R.B. approval pending, ceramic coated, cheapest cost, adjustable Y-pipe positioning parallel to K-member (possibly better alignment of the collector to Y-pipe)

Dynomax also makes a ceramic set of headers for the 93 that are street legal, #87734, that I was looking at, but they are really pricey and a very similar design to the Hooker setup (I managed to get them to send me a pic). Edelbrock makes a set as well that are ceramic coated, 68932, and are street legal, but I don't know how much I like the doughnut-style gaskets. What are your thoughts guys? Mind you, while cost is a factor, I'll gladly spend a little extra for a better set of headers. Thanks in advance everyone.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

No question about it with me, out of those 4 I would do the Hookers. I am talking headers guys. The Hookers are the only ones that are tuned.

[Injuneer]

Looking at the specs, the BBK's and Edelbrocks are built the best 16-ga tubing and 3/8" flanges. The Hookers are thinner 18-ga and 5/16" flanges. The Dynomax have the 16-ga tubing, but the 1/4" flange is pathetic. Its not going to seal well at all. My choice would be the BBK's.

I'm not sure I understand why the Hookers are "tuned". The primary lengths seem to vary all over the place, maybe even more than the BBK's. I'm curious.

Have you ever considered taking your car to an exhaust shop and having the Y-pipe modified so it fits the collectors corrctly, and having the flanges flattened?

[dochidalgo]

I recommend the BBK's too. Besides the 16-ga tubing and 3/8" flanges, mentioned by Fred, fits perfectly to the heads.
My 97 TA has installed BBKs shorty headers, ceramic coated, very pleased with them regarding performance, no leaks, easy spark plugs access, "good looking engine bay".



Best regards
dochidalgo

[Joe 1320]

Given the choices, I would pick the header with the thickest tubing and is ceramic coated. The thicker tubing lends itself to a quieter level of noise from under the hood. Most times a header cannot completely dampen the noise coming out of the port and you hear that infamous header "ting" with each combustion event. It's not a leak, and it's not heard when using cast iron manifolds as that harminic is damped by the thick iron. The thicker the tubing, the quieter it is underhood and the longer the header will last.

[Z Ya Later]

Thanks for the help so far guys, I really appreciate it. And Jeff, I was wait-ing for someone to make a joke on the Hooker headers. lol (had to do the hyphen to keep the graphic out lol)

I do like the fact that the Hookers are tuned, but I also am not sure how they can be labeled as such. I would prefer it if they were constructed of thicker material, but I would imagine that would drive the price up some more (which might explain why the Dynomax headers are so expensive).

I do like the look of the BBKs, esp. since the Y-pipe is adjustable the way that it is. And with the C.A.R.B. approval pending and the lower price coupled with the thicker materials used, I think its almost a slam-dunk on the choice. But I am still debating.

Have you ever considered taking your car to an exhaust shop and having the Y-pipe modified so it fits the collectors corrctly, and having the flanges flattened?

I have thought about having the Y-pipe modified, but that still wouldn't resolved the #5 primary problem. The flanges are straight, but the #5 primary tube sticks out way too far and gets way too close to the steering shaft. As you may recall, I had that major issue of rubbing shortly after putting the headers on. I suppose I could have the flanges taken down some on each side to not only give more space to the steering shaft but also help with the header alignment, but then I'm losing flange thickness. Please let me know what your thoughts are though Fred (and everyone else for that matter), as I am open to pretty much any route to alleviating these problems.

Once again, thanks for all the help so far everyone.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I'm not sure I understand why the Hookers are "tuned". The primary lengths seem to vary all over the place, maybe even more than the BBK's. I'm curious.

The "vary all over the place" is how they tune them. They vary the length of the primary tubes to get the pulses of exhaust to fall in line. Another words they are trying to keep 2 exhaust pulses from getting to the collector at the same time. It adjust the hp and torque curve up and down the band by tuning. I watched a show on TV a while back on how they tune them. It's very expensive. It's also worth a few horses and they sound different. They tend to sound more like an European high end sports car than an American muscle car. The only other people I have seen do that is SLP. I have the SLP tuned headers on my 02 Vette. They are a work of art.

The only thing I don't really like about the Hooker or for that matter all of them is they are steel rather than stainless steel. It's too bad you can't get the SLP headers for the LT1 anymore.

Here is an article about tuning headers.
http://www.nhra.com/dragster/1999/is...echnology.html

These are the SLP tuned headers for the 01-04 Vette

[blackthunder50]

I have the BBK's installed on my 96. I must say that the quality of the headers is excellent. However, I dumped the provided gaskets and hardware. I went with 1" ARP header bolts and percys aluminum gaskets. The provided 3/4" header bolts were weak and actually stripped one of my bolts holes. All of the carb hook ups fit very well and the headers clear everything.

I had some trouble getting my stock Y-pipe to meet up on the passenger side. We had to cut and fabricate our own pipe. Driver side was a perfect fit. You don't have the dual cat setup on yours though. I imagine the provided Y-pipe configuration will fit pretty well.

Overall, the headers still look new after about 3 years. I vote for the BBK's!

[Z Ya Later]

The "vary all over the place" is how they tune them. They vary the length of the primary tubes to get the pulses of exhaust to fall in line. Another words they are trying to keep 2 exhaust pulses from getting to the collector at the same time. It adjust the hp and torque curve up and down the band by tuning. I watched a show on TV a while back on how they tune them. It's very expensive. It's also worth a few horses and they sound different. They tend to sound more like an European high end sports car than an American muscle car. The only other people I have seen do that is SLP. I have the SLP tuned headers on my 02 Vette. They are a work of art.

The only thing I don't really like about the Hooker or for that matter all of them is they are steel rather than stainless steel. It's too bad you can't get the SLP headers for the LT1 anymore.

Here is an article about tuning headers.
http://www.nhra.com/dragster/1999/is...echnology.html

These are the SLP tuned headers for the 01-04 Vette

Interesting info Jeff, thanks. Of course, now the decision is a little tougher...thanks! lol

[Joe 1320]

Maybe I should add that I loved the SLPs in my TA.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

Since we're talkin' options, I can say I'm happy I choose mine. I went with the single cat version of RK Sport/AS&M Mid length headers. Shorties just didn't seem worth the effort for the small gains over the LT4 manifolds I was using.

The nice thing about these is that there are lots of write-ups to help you out with fitment.

[Injuneer]

The NHRA article on "tuning" using adjustable headers concerns a "kit" that allows you to add a fixed length to all 4 of the primaries, or a fixed length to the collectors. For that to work, even in theory, the primaries all need to be the same length. The resonant frequency, which is what you are trying to adjust up or downward to match (boost power at) a specific RPM has to be the same for all primaries. The resonant frequency is a function of primary length. It wouldn't make any sense to tune each cylinder for a different RPM with a different length primary. The firing order of the engine does have to be considered, and the Gen 1/Gen 2 SBC's firing order is not the best for achieving this. The David Vizard "How To Build HP" book has a detailed explanation, and actually provides the concept for connecting cylinders on opposite banks to a common collector, to overcome this issue. But this is all for max output race engines, not for daily drivers with a few mods.

Long tubes offer a better opporunity to get the primary lengths equal, and the longer tube "tunes" for a lower RPM, boosting the low end torque. They are great for the street. But they may be a flow obstruction on a "race" engine for example, which is designed to operate primarily at high RPM, where the longer primary increases frictional pressure loss. I've seen it proven on the dyno for an LT1 that was set up to make power primarily between 5,000-8,000rpm. The mid-length AS&M's produced more HP than the long tube Hooker Super Comps.

As far as the clearance between the steering shaft and the tube, a small "ding" in the tube may provide the clearance you need. And, dyno testing has shown that a small ding will not affect performance. My AS&M's show signs of rubbing on the shaft, probably when the engine is torquing over on the motor mounts, under 500-800 lb-ft of torque. I have not had any problems.

[Z Ya Later]

Since we're talkin' options, I can say I'm happy I choose mine. I went with the single cat version of RK Sport/AS&M Mid length headers. Shorties just didn't seem worth the effort for the small gains over the LT4 manifolds I was using.

The nice thing about these is that there are lots of write-ups to help you out with fitment.

Thanks for the recommendation Al, but unfortunately those won't work. I'd love to go with AS&M headers, but they aren't street legal here and I'd much rather not have to pay a guy to get my car to pass smog. I appreciate the input though.

As far as the clearance between the steering shaft and the tube, a small "ding" in the tube may provide the clearance you need. And, dyno testing has shown that a small ding will not affect performance. My AS&M's show signs of rubbing on the shaft, probably when the engine is torquing over on the motor mounts, under 500-800 lb-ft of torque. I have not had any problems.

Well, I'm glad that the dings won't affect the performance at all. I guess the thing is is that there's already a ding in the primary from where the steering shaft was rubbing before (it has started rubbing again since the accident last year). I still haven't come to a final decision as to whether I'm replacing the Pacesetters or not and, if I do, which ones I'm going to replace them with. The thing that just bothers me is that they didn't bother to refine their design to avoid these problems...and they make no effort to help when I call them. I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Pacesetter.

Thanks for the help and the insight everyone, I really appreciate it.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

The steering shaft can be moved about a 1/4 inch away from the primary, if that's where it's rubbing. If you go under the console, you'll notice that there are three screws holding the shaft/column in place. I was able to loosen these up and move the whole column over towards the fender. I can now get almost my entire finger in between the primary and the shaft.

I do have a modified shaft though. It was lengthened slightly to allow for extra clearance (almost 1/2 inch). Even though, you should still be able to move the shaft a bit, just make sure the lower joint is loosened up first, to allow for it to slide up.