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**ConElite** · 03-24-2009, 01:59 PM

You can find a used LS1+trans for around $2000 if you really look around. I dont know whats involved with the swap but Im guessing you can do the swap for around the same price.

Just a thought. No having to deal with tuning, Cam, Stock motor for the same HP.

**Nightrage** · 03-24-2009, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by ConElite

You can find a used LS1+trans for around $2000 if you really look around. I dont know whats involved with the swap but Im guessing you can do the swap for around the same price.

Just a thought. No having to deal with tuning, Cam, Stock motor for the same HP.

If I was ever going to do that, I'd just do the 402 swap. There's too much involved. I don't think I'd ever find an LS1/T-56 for $2k unless it had high mileage, I'd need a new K member, clutch/ flywheel/etc (unless they included it in the motor and tranny), PCM, fuel pump, plus I'm sure there's a ton more.

I might go with a more intense cam and just upgrade my heads later, or if I can find a built motor for a decent price, I can just go with that. Thanks for the idea though. I was definitely considering that swap a while back. A cammed LS1 would be sweet

**Nightrage** · 03-27-2009, 06:48 PM

Anybody? Should I go with a LLoyd Elliot package instead of the Cadillac cam?

**Craig 94 TA GT** · 03-29-2009, 01:43 AM

What are your goals for the car? How much is the max amount you are willing to spend?

It's always nice to have the max hp setup for the amount of money you will spend, but remember that you must have the supporting mods to maximize the engine you'll get. That adds up as well.

In my opinion, if you are just out for a daily driver that has a few extra hp, then that cam and a rebuilt stocker is fine. If you want a lot more hp, then you should either go with a LE or AI heads/cam package. Of course if you go that route, you'll need to make sure your bottom end cam take spins to 6500+ RPM, if you want to maximize your investment.

My cam is a smog cam, which means it's very streetable. Unless you listen to the lope, you won't notice it's cammed just by driving. Of course, idle is 900 and the heads flow 290 CFM, but it's my daily driver and will run 11s once I work out the bugs. And I didn't even realize it but a SLP header, 3" high flow cat and Borla exhaust is actually a restriction to the system - which means you have to be prepared to spend more $$ than expected, to get it to its full potential.

In the end, it all depends how much you're willing to spend and what your goals are. If the goals are 12s, then the cam you mentioned, sticky tires and some gears should do the trick.

**Nightrage** · 03-29-2009, 06:53 PM

I'd like to try and keep it at or around $3k. I'm really more interested in SOTP gains since I don't plan on taking it to a track any time in the near future. How badly would an LE1 sap my gas mileage? I'm thinking I might go that route, but would I need a new crankshaft and everything? If that's the case, I'll just go with the Cadillac cam and bolt ons. I really can't afford to upgrade the rear and the clutch right now anyhow. I have a brand hew Ram HD clutch in it, but I'm not sure what its holding capacity is. I want to swap to 4.10's, but I'm not sure if the stock rear could hold that without breaking, especially with more traction and whatever power my engine will be putting out. Worst comes to worst, I think that cam will be fine for now. I can always boost or spray on it later when everything else is upgraded. I should be able to pick up at least 60 horsepower with bolt ons plus the cam.

That cam, plus headers/ high flow cat, a tune 1.6 RR's should keep me happy for a while, especially if I can put 4.10's in without the rear going on me. So should I have the engine rebuilt? Or should I find a used lt1 from say, a Caprice or Impala SS, reuse my T/A's heads and swap on the other parts? Finding a used motor would obviously be the cheapest route, but I need to find a motor from someone reliable. I don't want to drop $700 on a motor only to find that it leaks oil or has a crack somewhere.

**raroZ28** · 03-29-2009, 07:00 PM

You can do everything you need to do fairly cheap.

Just be sure to take it to a reputable shop for the machine work.

And that cam you posted sounds like a good cam. But if you rebuild the motor, you might wanna put in a stroker, then you can buy a cam that goes higher than 6k. Maybe more like 65-6800.

**Craig 94 TA GT** · 03-30-2009, 11:25 AM

Just another note that you need to make sure you have "crap happens" money if you do the rebuild with the LE package (don't forget to also check out Advanced Induction but they cost a little more). If you do the rebuild, you might as well have good stuff done, including ARP studs/bolts, really good bearings, etc. Expect it to redline around 6600. Your stock crank turned should be fine. Rods are probably ok if you don't abuse it, but not a bad idea to replace.

If you have h/c with a high mileage bottom end, your bottom end is at risk. I spun 3 bearings revving my stock bolt-on motor to 6350 RPM.

SOTP will definitely be noticable, but not really tremendously until you hit higher RPMs. One thing I noticed was that the MAF GPS stayed similar up to around 5000-5500 RPM. That means that there isn't that much difference in the low end. If you want a huge low end difference, then a 383 would enable you to feel it. Of course, traction would suffer, and your rear end would be more at risk with a torquier motor.

Just remember that once you start going deeper into the motor, you'll need to eventually go deeper everywhere else.

**Nightrage** · 04-03-2009, 12:04 AM

I'm thinking a forged 355, just in case I decide to supercharge it sometime down the line. There's just too much to worry about with a 383. If Shon Herron can pull an 11.8 in a bolt on LT1, I think I should at least break low 12's with bolt ons and a cam. I looked into it and my clutch is rated 40% holding capacity over stock (RAM HDX), which I figure should hold: slightly ported LT1 heads, bolt ons plus a baby cam. Hopefully the rear is feeling up to it.

I need to get a parts list together or everything I'm going to need for this.

I'm not sure which one I'll need, but this site seems to carry every rebuild kit I'd need. Not sure of quality of the parts though-
http://www.rpmmachine.com/engine-reb...hevrolet.shtml

Now, will I need everything to be forged if I want to run more than 6PSI on a supercharger? Crank, connecting rods, everything? A lot of guys say that the stock crankshaft is "stout" and can handle a lot, but you recommend replacing it? The engine has about 113k miles on it, but it's been sitting there seized up for a while. i'll probably need to replace just about everything as it is. I'm not sure where to find parts, though. I'm not sure who's legit and who I should avoid, plus these sites seem to make up prices as they go along.

Guess I'll have to call up a machinist tomorrow to give me some labor estimates. Any ideas on cost to bore it .030 over and mild porting of the heads? I'm not sure what I need the flow specs to be. I don't know the first thing about flow specs.

If prices start getting out of hand, I'm just going to upgrade the crank and get everything else non- forged. What will I need to rev it without sweating, and what else should I upgrade for a reliable engine?

**Craig 94 TA GT** · 04-03-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Nightrage

I'm thinking a forged 355, just in case I decide to supercharge it sometime down the line. There's just too much to worry about with a 383. If Shon Herron can pull an 11.8 in a bolt on LT1, I think I should at least break low 12's with bolt ons and a cam. I looked into it and my clutch is rated 40% holding capacity over stock (RAM HDX), which I figure should hold: slightly ported LT1 heads, bolt ons plus a baby cam. Hopefully the rear is feeling up to it.

A h/c LT1 is easily in the low 12s...with a baby cam. My first time at the track I got it down to 12.4 with a mediocre 1.79 60' and lots of issues with the motor. We estimate it will get down to 11.8 to 11.9@113 once everything is worked out. That is with a baby cam in the mid 220s, fully ported LT1 heads, stock intake, Moroso CAI, SLP shorty headers, Borla 3" catback, and even with a 3" cat. Your goal of low 12s will be obtained unless there are major issues. If you do go with a blower, you have to consider the pistons. An h/c package works well especially when you up the compression, but you can't run too high with a blower. So if you are planning on milling heads, Felpro or GM 0.029 or 0.039 gaskets, decked block, you can expect 11.x CR. That means your boost will be very limited. Are you sure it won't be fast enough?

Oh, and I wouldn't make a comparison to Shon Herron...he's about 700-850 lbs lighter than an LT1 f-body. That's equivalent to a 70-85 hp increase, about the results of a mild h/c package.

Originally posted by Nightrage

I need to get a parts list together or everything I'm going to need for this.

I'm not sure which one I'll need, but this site seems to carry every rebuild kit I'd need. Not sure of quality of the parts though-
http://www.rpmmachine.com/engine-reb...hevrolet.shtml

Now, will I need everything to be forged if I want to run more than 6PSI on a supercharger? Crank, connecting rods, everything? A lot of guys say that the stock crankshaft is "stout" and can handle a lot, but you recommend replacing it? The engine has about 113k miles on it, but it's been sitting there seized up for a while. i'll probably need to replace just about everything as it is. I'm not sure where to find parts, though. I'm not sure who's legit and who I should avoid, plus these sites seem to make up prices as they go along.

Guess I'll have to call up a machinist tomorrow to give me some labor estimates. Any ideas on cost to bore it .030 over and mild porting of the heads? I'm not sure what I need the flow specs to be. I don't know the first thing about flow specs.

If prices start getting out of hand, I'm just going to upgrade the crank and get everything else non- forged. What will I need to rev it without sweating, and what else should I upgrade for a reliable engine?

So about all the parts and everything...if you're going to do this right, you are going to need deep pockets. I did as much "budget" as I could, but ended up spending around $15k+. It might even be closer to $20k, but I stopped counting. I already had the headers, full exhaust, CAI, RRs, 9" rear, and a few other supporting parts I could reuse.

Make sure to get a cam that matches the heads with the proper lift. If you have to worry about emissions, there's another thing you'll have to look at. A 113 LSA is a pretty smooth ride and lopes somewhat, but not like a nascar. It will pass smog as long as the duration is in the mid 220s.

Here are other things:
- Heads ported with guideplates, springs, valves
- cam
- pushrods (proper length - be sure to measure as stock length will likely not work)
- RRs and 7/16" studs
- I would go forged pistons, forged rods, and keep the crank stock, but have it turned. My builder to me the stock crank is good for 700 hp, but I've also heard 550.
- ARP stud the bottom end along with REALLY good bearings. You will redline above 6600.
- You can keep the intake manifold stock for now unless you want the extra few hp
- 52 or 58mm throttle body. If your IAC and TPS are old, it might be a good time to replace
- 30 or 36 lb injectors. I'm running 38s and my DC is around 85-88%, so I think 30s are too close to the limit.
- If you ever wanted to change your k-member, now is the time. I got Spohn's and access from below is awesome.
- Is your oil pan in good shape? You can reuse it.
- New timing set
- There are much more smaller parts but I just can't remember at the moment. Just remember to have extra cash for lots of small stuff and "crap happens". I've had that happen to me a lot and it adds up. Also be sure to get a GOOD tune. There are lots of tuners who think they know a lot, but they don't. For a h/c combo, IMHO, PCMforless won't cut it. Get it dyno tuned and/or get the info to Jeff Creech at CarolinaAutoMasters.

I've spent over $1000 in tunes and the initial PCMforless was too lean at WOT, too rich at part throttle, getting me about 12 mpg. Next was a dyno tune that got me 13.5 mpg and about 15 more RWHP. I had another dyno tune and got another 5 RWHP. Then I got Jeff Creech's tune and am up to 14.5 mpg.

**Nightrage** · 04-03-2009, 10:04 PM

I got in touch with a guy who said he'd rebuild my motor for $2200. That's milling the heads, boring and honing the cylinders, full assembly of the engine, plus he said he can get me whatever parts I want. My step dad has given him a lot of business, so he's cutting me a break. I think I'm just going to add the necessities, like new bearings, pushrods, lifters, etc, then I'll get headers, a high flow cat, injectors, whatever cam, springs, etc, a new timing chain and leave it at that. I have to see what the machinist thinks about my crank. I might have to keep it and just not rev it high. I don't have the funding to go as far as I wanted to with this. This set up has to be good for at least mid 12's. I'd imagine I can hit low 12's once I swap in a 12 bolt with steeper gearing, assuming of course that I can get some traction. If I decide it's not fast enough down the line, I can always spray on it. I already ripped out my rear seats, spare and jack, I plan on doing the A/C delete when the motor is out, my battery is long dead, so I plan on replacing that with a dry cell battery. My carpet has seen better days, so that's probably getting pulled. I need to weigh my options on a practical, light weight replacement. I figure I'll have 250+lbs out of the car eventually.

Thanks for the help everyone.

**raroZ28** · 04-04-2009, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Nightrage

I got in touch with a guy who said he'd rebuild my motor for $2200. That's milling the heads, boring and honing the cylinders, full assembly of the engine, plus he said he can get me whatever parts I want.

You're wasting money. You need the following done.

Hot tanked block $40
Heads milled (If needed) $50
Flywheel Resurface $35
Bore and Hone $90-$150 depending on where you are

Don't let him assemble the engine. That's too expensive for the type of job that it is.

Learn to set bearing clearances, or have somebody there that knows how, and do it yourself. That will leave you with more money to do the things you want to do.

**Nightrage** · 04-04-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by raroZ28

You're wasting money. You need the following done.

Hot tanked block $40
Heads milled (If needed) $50
Flywheel Resurface $35
Bore and Hone $90-$150 depending on where you are

Don't let him assemble the engine. That's too expensive for the type of job that it is.

Learn to set bearing clearances, or have somebody there that knows how, and do it yourself. That will leave you with more money to do the things you want to do.

Damn, really? I figured it was a good price since everyone else has been quoting me for $4,000. I wanted to rebuild myself, but my step dad says I should get it by a pro. This way, I'd know it was done right, plus it'd be warrantied. I'm definitely going to have to think this through a little more now. Thanks for the save amigo!!!

**raroZ28** · 04-04-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Nightrage

Damn, really? I figured it was a good price since everyone else has been quoting me for $4,000. I wanted to rebuild myself, but my step dad says I should get it by a pro. This way, I'd know it was done right, plus it'd be warrantied. I'm definitely going to have to think this through a little more now. Thanks for the save amigo!!!

It does depend on where you're at, but typically engine work is pretty cheap. Bore and hone, hot tank, and milling are typically jobs that don't take much time.

a $4k quote? That's insane. That probably includes pulling the engine, doing all the work, and putting it back into the car.

**Nightrage** · 04-08-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by raroZ28

a $4k quote? That's insane. That probably includes pulling the engine, doing all the work, and putting it back into the car.

It did. Still way higher than I'll ever be willing to pay. I could probably get a full LT1 car for that much money. Now I have to try and figure out where I'm going to rebuild this thing. I don't have access to a garage or anything, so I have to find a place.

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