Clutch Secondary Cylinder / Actuator Movement

[Louer Adun]

The Camaro has been shifting a little rough recently (94 3.4L). It seems as if the clutch isn't disengaging completely.

When the car is off, the transmission shifts through all the gears very smoothly, if I start the engine and hold the clutch pedal to the floor, it is pretty difficult to get into gear (easier if I am moving), and every once in a while I'll get some grinding going into second.

I replaced the clutch about 60k miles ago and haven't had any problems with it, or been treating it badly (the stock clutch lasted 130k miles).

I think maybe the piston in the master clutch cylinder is shot and that's causing a lack of pressure to move the secondary cylinder, but I was hoping someone could answer a pretty simple question for me to confirm this.

TLDR:

How much movement is there in the clutch secondary cylinder / actuator on a 3.4L 94 Camaro. From top of the pedal to the floor, I get about 3/4" of any movement, it seems like it should be more.

Thanks in advance guys, want to get this taken care of before I bend a fork in the tranny or destroy my clutch completely.

[ConElite]

That does seem like very little travel. When was the last time you chanced the fluid in the Master/Slave.

Maybe give that a shot before anything.

[FTA1995]

I have had a similar problem with my original T56, I had pulled the sleeve on the throwout bearing apart from beating on a discount clutch kit that came with the car. The slave cylinder itself should not move, but I have seen some flex with no problems. Does the pedal still travel normally and feel the same resistance wise? It almost sounds like you're describing the symptoms of transmission syncronizer damage, or if you really beat on the shift into second gear. It is also possible that you damaged part of the actuator fork or possibly even hopped the fork off the ball stud, but that seems unlikely since you would be reporting more severe symptoms.


you could always switch to the 96 up T5 system, hydraulic throwout. not sure if you could do it easily, most of my experience is with the T56, not the T5.

[Louer Adun]

I have never changed the clutch fluid since I have owned the car (about 80k miles, shame on me, but it is a completely closed system). I also noticed that there is a little bit of fluid on the inside of the firewall just underneath the clutch mechanism.

When I first installed this clutch, it had about 2 inches on the pedal between engaged and disengaged. If I am driving down the road, I can push the clutch down about 1-2 inches and the clutch starts slipping as if its disengaged, but if the car is stopped, the clutch must be to the floor to get it in gear at all.

The clutch *seems* softer than it used to, but its been years since I installed the clutch so its hard to compare how it used to feel, compared to its feel now.

Just to elaborate a little more, the secondary cylinder is not actually moving, I was talking about the movement of the piston coming out of the secondary cylinder (the part that is supposed to move).

I've read that a good way to test the Master cylinder is to put the car in gear and leave the clutch depressed (disengaged), and see if the car starts slowly engaging the clutch (which would indicate the master clutch cylinder is not holding). This doesn't seem to happen, which has me worried that I might need to pull off the transmission and take a look at the clutch.

If any of you guys can get under there and measure the movement of the secondary cylinder (or even eyeball it), I believe that would definitively identify the hydraulic system as the problem versus the clutch. I'm sort of thinking that it should be moving a distance closer to 2".

I'm going to be taking another look at it when i get home from work today, if I notice anything relevant I'll throw it up here.

[sneitzel]

If my math is correct, that's 190K miles on the original master and slave?
That's not too bad...
It may just be time for a replacement.

[FTA1995]

I've read that a good way to test the Master cylinder is to put the car in gear and leave the clutch depressed (disengaged), and see if the car starts slowly engaging the clutch (which would indicate the master clutch cylinder is not holding). This doesn't seem to happen, which has me worried that I might need to pull off the transmission and take a look at the clutch.

This method works to detect a leakdown of hydraulic pressure, in the cases...
A. Master cylinder needs overhaul, internal pressure leak
B. External system leak/loss of fluid

.. but it may not find evidence of...
C. Damaged hydraulic linkage (weak sections of hose expanding under hydraulic load)
D. Bent or dislocated clutch fork
E. Throwout assembly damage
F. Seized slave cylinder (unlikely imho)

If my math is correct, that's 190K miles on the original master and slave?
That's not too bad...
It may just be time for a replacement.

This is the main reason I feel you should check out the entire hydraulic system, that's a good amount of pressure cycles for the systems lifetime, not to mention its age and exposure to the elements.

As far as slave piston travel, I couldn't give you a number, I'm assuming you mean while the slave is bolted up and loaded by the clutch fork from fully disengaged to fully engaged...

[Louer Adun]

FTA I agree with you 100%.

Rock auto had a complete system (master, slave, and hydraulic linkage) for $65 that was pre filled and ready to bolt on, but upon completing my order I received an email stating it was no longer available and my card would be refunded.

I ended up purchasing just the master cylinder and paid pretty much the same amount. I figure I'll start there since it seems like its seeping a little, and the parts aren't free.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for all the help!

fyi: For anyone who is interested shes at 199600 right now and still running great (with the exception of the recent clutch issues). Hopefully I can get another 50k out of her.

[Joe 1320]

Heck, mine has 290K miles and it had received a new clutch at about 100K. You can get lots of miles out of these if you don't beat on it by power shifting. Do lift throttle shifts and she will last a very long time.