'02 vs '93

[67'maro]

There is a '02 camaro ss with the ls1 and 320hp. Then you have a '93 formula firebird with the lt1 and 275hp. I know that the '02 would probably win but how close would the race actually be in the quarter mile?

[Joe 1320]

That's a tough question. I've seen factory freak LT1 cars beat a slow factory LS1 car. In theory , all other things being equal, there should be 4 tenths of a lead for the LS1 car at the end of a quarter. That's in theory and I'm sure there are others that will debate that. Generally speaking, each additional 10 HP or reduction of 100 lbs is equal to a tenth and one MPH in the quarter for these cars. Keep in mind there is also a slight weight difference between the two cars as well. There are just too many variables that can give someone an answer on paper. Stick vs auto? Available traction? Driver skill? % of allowable tolerance with output? There are just too many variables.......

[Mirroredshades]

There are too many variables to speculate accurately so I'll just make some stuff up, cause its too frickin cold to go outside anyway.

I bought my 96 TA 6 months ago. I drove 13 98-01 Vettes and 9 95-97 TA's before I bought mine. It is amazing how differently vehicles age and how many options to modify them there are. A couple of the TA's I drove couldn't get out of the way of a school bus and others, with 135K on them could spank a Z06. This is true, even of LS1's. Of the Corvettes I drove, only one was faster than the LT1 TA I bought. The odds of finding a stock and extremely clean 93 are slim compared to an 02. In the end, its really all about the money. If you want straight out of the box performance, get a newer LS1 car. If money is tighter or you are a mod freak, you can get LT1 cars cheaper. I chose the LT1 platform mainly b/c I like the looks better than the newer style but it doesn't take much to make your car dominant on the street......There aren't that many vehicles out there that can run with an F-body anyway.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Well, now that the LT1 guys have spkoen their minds, you get to hear from an LS1 guy ...

Given cars in similar condition, and both equipped with the same transmission (either both manual or both auto) the 02 LS1 will run away from the 93 LT1 in stock trim.

There is a member on the board who just dyno'ed 230/239 with a 94 LT1. It isn't un-heard of for an 02 LS1 to hit 320 at the wheels stock.

An 01 or 02 LS1 is even stronger than the 98, 99, or 00 LS1... I doubt this race would be very close given comparable drivers.

Of course there are benefits to the LT1, as the guys said earlier they are cheaper, etc... of course you can modify anything to be fast, so if your plan is to modify the choice will come down to personal preference. But stock for stock, this one isn't much of a contest...

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Joe said 4 tenths difference in the quarter mile... seeing as how an LS1 z28 ran a 12.8 in MM&FF, and a decent driver will be low 13's in an 02 LS1...

... my prediction is anywhere from a half second to a full second difference in the quarter mile.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Didn't Mike C, a member with us (not sure if he's still here), run 13.5 with a bone stock LT1 - 95 Z if I recall?

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
Joe said 4 tenths difference in the quarter mile... seeing as how an LS1 z28 ran a 12.8 in MM&FF, and a decent driver will be low 13's in an 02 LS1...

... my prediction is anywhere from a half second to a full second difference in the quarter mile.

I love how people seem to quote the fastest times. What about the slower ones? What about the GMHTP WS6 that only ran 13.40s at 103.xx? What about High Performance Pontiac's WS6 that ran 13.46 at 105.xx? How about GMHTP's SS that only trapped mid 13s at 104? Some of you guys are sooooo quick to find the rare instance that stellar time was reported and make it a law. And not to be taken out of context, what I said was meant to show that there are some fast factory stock LT1s, there are fast factory stock LS1s, I've seen fast factory stock LT1s go quicker than slow LS1s, I've seen them run the same, I've seen LS1s beat LT1s. Based on the average times (not the freakish once in a blue moon car), 4 tenths is the average difference. My LT1 auto convertible vette ran 13.69 right out of the box. My 97 WS6 ran 13.87 right out of the box I've seen other factory stock LT1s go quicker. If you take the average times that many (not just one) of the ragazines publish, you get about 4 tenths difference. Now if you do have one of the rare, once in a blue moon freak LS1s and you line up against a dog of an LS1 or LT1( I've seen 14s), expect there to be a bigger difference. On average, it is what it is. This isn't meant to do anything except clearify what is reality.

[N20LT4Bird]

I'll have to add that the 93 LT1 was probably the doggiest Lt1(generally speaking). The 96-97 Lt1 especially the ram air cars, seem to be noticeably faster (again, generally speaking).

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
I love how people seem to quote the fastest times. What about the slower ones? What about the GMHTP WS6 that only ran 13.40s at 103.xx? What about High Performance Pontiac's WS6 that ran 13.46 at 105.xx? How about GMHTP's SS that only trapped mid 13s at 104? Some of you guys are sooooo quick to find the rare instance that stellar time was reported and make it a law. And not to be taken out of context, what I said was meant to show that there are some fast factory stock LT1s, there are fast factory stock LS1s, I've seen fast factory stock LT1s go quicker than slow LS1s, I've seen them run the same, I've seen LS1s beat LT1s. Based on the average times (not the freakish once in a blue moon car), 4 tenths is the average difference. My LT1 auto convertible vette ran 13.69 right out of the box. My 97 WS6 ran 13.87 right out of the box I've seen other factory stock LT1s go quicker. If you take the average times that many (not just one) of the ragazines publish, you get about 4 tenths difference. Now if you do have one of the rare, once in a blue moon freak LS1s and you line up against a dog of an LS1 or LT1( I've seen 14s), expect there to be a bigger difference. On average, it is what it is. This isn't meant to do anything except clearify what is reality.

Joe, don't forget how much stronger the 01 and 02 LS1 are than even the 98, 99, and 00 LS1.

He was comparing a 93 LT1 to an 02 LS1. I seriously doubt that those mid-13 times (especially the 103 and 104 trap speeds) were run with the 01 or 02 LS1.

Craig 94 TA GT just before you posted had to have reported the most freakish LT1 time I have ever seen... 13.5 (?!?!?!?!) Impressive without a doubt. But if we can call that a freak, then let's compare it to the LS1 freak (12.8). It is still a 7 tenths difference.

[tabahr]

I had a host of bolt-ons installed on a 95 Z and only got a 13.69.

Basecar 95 Z-28 A4 3.23rear t-top
SLP Ultra-Z ram air hood, with SLP ram air box and K&N.
SLP TOTL catback
!TB coolant
!MAF screen
HPP programmer
TB flowpiece
March underdrive pulleys
1LE aluminum driveshaft
Hotchkis STB, poly bushings in swaybars
17x9.5 ZR-1 rims with 275/40 R17 eagle GS-Cs

If I had to do it again, I would had put in a set of 3.73's. I have a feeling this car was a slug to start out with.

I also used to have an 88 5.7 Iroc that was a ringer. That car was stock, and man it flew. It would keep up with LT1 cars.

[94 formula]

My biggest question is why can there be such a difference. Your saying that a ls1 put out a 12.8s run and there are some in the 14s. Same with the lt1. If there made at the same plant with the same machines why such a difference?

[CorollaRacer]

I don't see it being a close race between the 2. The LS1 cars have other advantages beyond the motors.

[Mirroredshades]

Woo Hoo!!!! An LT1 vs LS1 fight. Yee Haw!!!!!

There are variations in production. The compexity of a motor is so high that every interface of parts can cause microscopic power losses. How well the parts are machined, how well the ports are lined up, how degree'd the cam is, how balanced the internals are. Yatta yatta Yatta.

I don't know why we argue stock vs stock anyway. Who on this site owns a stock car?

I like LS1's too so don't think I am going to start flying my LT1 flag.

And to answer the initial question. The 02 would probably wax the 93 by about .5 sec.

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6


I seriously doubt that those mid-13 times (especially the 103 and 104 trap speeds) were run with the 01 or 02 LS1.

Oh, but they were. The last 02 35th anniversary tested that was taken right off the assembly line and was not a press car.

All I am saying is that the freaky high trap speeds are the exception and not the norm. Don't forget that high percentage of the cars are automatics which won't trap as high as sticks. I am also not starting a LT1 vs LS1 war, I am simply trying to keep things in perspective that all LS1s are not road rockets that are capable of blowing away C5s. My neighbor has a 02 C5 stick car that runs 13.18 @ 106. He is a decent driver and the car is lighter than an f-body too.

Again, I am speaking AVERAGES. Some of you guys with an exceptionally strong LS1 will argue this point until death and it really isn't necessary. You obviously have a rare beast so enjoy it. Many people still don't belive that my LT1 runs 13.05 @105, an unopened motor and an automatic and many times got to the finish line ahead of an LS1. And yes, once in a while they had a higher trap speed but I still got there first.

Is it possible there is a .7-1.0 difference in times? sure. Put a strong LS1 example against a weaker LT1 example and there ya go.

[Mirroredshades]

Ahh shoot. Ignore Joe's thread. I love smokin a cocky LS1 owner. Screw PC. Lets set up an LT1 vs LS1 battle in the spring. The Rock, Bristol, Bradenton, I don't care.


LS1 owners are a bunch of pretty boys.