Anyone spraying direct port?

[fastTa]

Does anyone in here have a direct port n2o setup? Did you have someone drill and tap your intake or did you do it yourself?

Just wondering because I am going to attempt to drill and tap my LT4 intake myself for the piranha nozzles.

[Injuneer]

Have you considered the NOS NOSzles? No drilling required.



The shop that built my engine is using the NOSzles on their 7.00-second Pro5.0 Mustang. They did extensive testing to insure that the flow from the NOSzle would not interfere with the fuel flow from the injector. It didn't. In addition to the elimination of the need to drill, they are installed using nylon tubing, which also has proven to be extremely durable.

The challenge will be to raise the fuel rails to accomodate the added height, but that would appear to be doable.

PS: Just how much are you planning to spray? Appears you are running an aluminum DS ("IE" = 1LE?). I saw an LPE 3.5" aluminum shaft break at the 750HP level. I also managed to destroy an ACPT CF heavy duty 3.8" shaft, although that appeared to be a manufacturing defect, since it broke at low load on the street.

[fastTa]

I have heard of these just haven't done much research on them. Where does the fuel injector plug into and do you know how big an injector these are designed for?

By nylon lines I guess you are referring to the delivery of nitrous from from noids to NOSzles?

IE = Inland Empire. I had a local guy custom make my driveshaft because we used the short tailshaft housing on my th400. IE claims it will good for about 1100 hp, we will find out

I will probably start small around 175-200 and work my way up to about a 350-375 shot. I have a lot of tuning to look forward to!!

[fastTa]

Hey BTW my inbox is empty but I am still getting "Inbox Full" messages.

Am I missing something

[Injuneer]

When you checked you "Inbox" did you set the time period for "since the beginning"?

The NOSzles work with stock physical size injectors. They have no limits with regard to flow rating.... I'm sure the shop is using 180# injectors at very high pressure, since its a 1,300HP engine with at least 500HP of DRY nitrous. They are only using the NOSzles for the nitrous, since they prefer dry setups.

The nitrous and fuel can be connected using the NOS supplied flexible nylon tubing. This eliminates serious cutting and bending of hard tubing. The shop was skeptical on the nylon tubing, but they have 2 years of competition on the engine with no problems.

[fastTa]

Thanks for the info Fred. Looks like I have some more homework to do now!

Are you running direct port on your system? Progressive controller or dual stage?

[Injuneer]

I run a dry system. There are dual NOS Super Powershot 'noids supplying two NOS fan-jet nozzles in the the outlet of the ram air box. No problem putting it in there, because I don't run an MAF, its a speed-density setup. Fuel is controlled by a "nitrous" step program in the MoTeC M48Pro ECU.

Originally is was split into two stages.... 125HP activated by the WOT switch, and another 150HP controlled with a manual shifter button. But the 125-shot off the line didn't work the way I planned - the convertor was set up to flash to 5000rpm with both stages of nitrous, and with only a 125-shot, it was 60 feet out from the starting line before the revs came up enough to allow the first stage to activate.... hence the decent MPH (127.7) and the weak ET (11.1) on a 125-shot.

Now it is set up for a single stage, using both 'noids/nozzles, and spraying 300 (flywheel) off the line. I tried to launch it last Fall at SLP Day in Englishtown, but I had a computer problem, and my new Toshiba laptop doesn't have a serial port, and I get frequent conflicts on COM port assignements with the Keyspan USB/serial adapter and the MoTeC software, so I wasn't able to get the nitrous to fire. I figure as soon as the weather is good enough in the Spring, it will make its first pass with the full 300-shot.

The shop that does a lot of my work - Second Street Speed in Perkasie PA - has a strong preference for dry systems.... as you can see from the way they set up their own shop car. They have been able to convince me of the advantages, particularly when you consider a direct port system which CONTINUOUSLY sprays nitrous and fuel against a valve that is closed more than 1/2 of the time. Using the dry system, assuming you can get good cylinder-to-cylinder distribution on the nitrous, and over-size injectors, you can synchronize fuel with the valve events a lot better. The advantages of the MoTeC include the ability to control the large injectors, the ability to trim fuel cylinder-to-cylinder and the ability to alter injector-to-valve event timing over the full range of RPM.

[fastTa]

Originally posted by Injuneer

They have been able to convince me of the advantages, particularly when you consider a direct port system which CONTINUOUSLY sprays nitrous and fuel against a valve that is closed more than 1/2 of the time. Using the dry system, assuming you can get good cylinder-to-cylinder distribution on the nitrous, and over-size injectors, you can synchronize fuel with the valve events a lot better.

That is interesting about the continuous spraying, I have just seen alot of guys have difficulty in getting even cylinder distribution of n20 given the shape of the LT4 plenum. Since the n20 is less dense than gasoline I have seen cases where the n20 was being sucked into the front cylinders more so than the back cylinders causing big problems. I guess that was why I felt safer with using a direct port.

Now you really got me thinking

I am going to discuss this "continuous spraying" with Combination Motorsports today and see what they think.

Sounds logical to me that a "pooling effect" could occur when the intake valve is closed but then again we are talking about very short intervals of time between a specific cylinders intake valve opening/closing at high revs. And I wonder if it was possibe for the n20 to actually re-condense before entering the cylinder because of this possible "pooling effect"???

Some good stuff to think about huh

[fastTa]

Combination Motorsports told me that they have never seen any problems with direct port systems. A couple of the guys have had 500-550 shot direct port setup without any problems. But I realize everyone's motor is different.

I am curious to know why Second Street Speed was discouraged from using direct port. That would be some very valuable info.

I am surprised no one else has put in their $.02

[Injuneer]

No one is saying there are problems with direct port, or that it doesn't work. What is being said is that you have more direct control of the fuel timing when you use a dry system. There is some HP in the injector timing.

[fastTa]

I am sorry I guess I mislead you.

We were going to use a DRY direct port setup. Relying on PCM to add additional fuel.