The Death of the F-body....explained...

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

If you like to read and you want to know more about the story, here's a good thread...This is the first time I've seen so much in one place. Much of this is verifiable through articles...

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=230757


And, in the words of the imortal Yoda...

"There is another..."

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Why is the GTO's fuel tank relocated to the trunk between the rear wheels?

The current Mustang has it's tank located in the same place the Monaro does (behind the rear axle, under the trunk floor), but Holden moved it into the trunk.

This is because there is a new 50 mph rear crash standard coming for 2006 model year cars. If Holden hadn't moved the tank, the GTO would have been pulled less than 24 months from now. Ditto the Mustang if Ford hadn't redesigned it.

Although the 4th gen Camaro has it's fuel tank above and behind the rear axle (just like those Ford Crown Victorias), it's doubtful it would have passed the new rear collision standards either, without some serious reengineering work (that massive hatch opening made the F-body's rear section (behind the rear wheels) pretty weak as far as crash standards go.

These standards were made many years ago to give automakers plenty of time to make plans.

And, yes.....this means yet another piece of the "Why-did-they-kill-the-Camaro" mystery is solved.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

A good synopsis...

Other things worth noting:
* Bob Lutz tells the media that there is a Camaro in the works and retracts it within days.

*Kurt Ritter (Chevy's former general manager) in a speech mentions a future Camaro, then backtracks.

*GM Performance group chief Mark Reuss stated that a priority of General Motors is to "find a chassis sutible for the next Camaro", then says he was misquoted, and denies a Camaro is in the works.

* Jon Moss hinted at a new Camaro "someday", as did Ron Zarella & GM's former product boss.

*There was an actual memo sent out (by GM's Legal departmet!)shortly after the F-body ended production that forbids anyone from even mentioning Camaro or Firebird to the public or press, under threat of termination.

This pretty much clearly defines GM's situation:

1. GM had a battle royal with both the CAW & the Quebec government trying to close down Ste Therese.

2. GM got a $200,000,000 INTREST FREE loan from Quebec (not due till 2017!! )& $100,000,000 in tax breaks in 1987 to produce the 4th gen Camaro there.

3. In that same agreement (done in 1987 NOT 1997) Ste. Therese won an exclusive agreement from GM to produce Camaros & Firebirds.... yes, and exclusive agreement!

4. By the mid to late 90s the Ste Threse plant was an albatross around GMs neck. Yet they did keep the plant going to most people in the know, long past it's usefulness.

5. GM has till 2005 to replace the jobs lost at Ste Therese with expanded jobs at other plants or has to pay a pension to anyone left who hasn't been rehired.

6. If GM's contract is with the Ste Therese plant. As long as the plant is standing or unsold, GM is comitted to making the F-body at that plant!

8. As long as GM has an outstanding balence on it's NO INTREST LOAN from Quebec, it can not make anything called Camaro or Firebird.

9. GM is making investments & grants to Quebec in order to repay it's loans.

10. By indicating they are contemplating a new Camaro by mentioning it, General Motors would still be liable for breaking their agreements before it could be demonstrated that they have lived up to all terms of that contract.

General Motors would also be demonstrating bad faith if they made an announcement or indicated they were OFFICIALLY moving ahead with a new Camaro before all loans were paid, all CAW workers layed off were rehired (GM HAS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS NO LATER THAN 2005), and the Ste Therese plant was either sold or leveled!

This is pretty much what RP meant by one day we'll understand.

This information has been bouncing around from a number of people inside GM, but no one could publically be quoted. Using numberous press and media sources & stringing them together, this is the story without compromising anybody.

Bottom line, DO NOT expect any use of the Camaro or Firebird name till these things are resolved. 2005 is the year, or at the very least, once the next talks with the CAW produce a contract.

[Mark B]

Thanks for the Link.. Very informative!!

Thanks for the Link.. Very informative!!

[Joe 1320]

That's what I've said all along...... There will be no Camaro or Firebird until the Canadian plant is officially sold, closed and/or disposed of. GM wanted out of Canada for so long, tons of cash incentives won't even keep them there. Unfortunately due to contracts, as long as the plant is capable of producing a vehicle, they have exclusive rights to the constuction of the Camaro and Firebird. Politics, politics, politics.

[Mark B]

Im just glad I know what is going on now. I was so clueless the whole time!~!

[TimeLord]

The walls of the plant have started to come down and there is nothing left inside!!!

Land to be sold off to developers!!

[Mark B]

Its kinda sad to think about. The birthplace of many of our cars is getting ripped down piece by piece. Soon there will be noting left of it.

[losixxx-ntkid]

I guess as soon as the way is clear a new plant will make F bodies in Mexico.
Another kick in the groin to the American worker.
After all "Camaro" is a spanish word.

[pugmire]

I thought Camaro was french. Making them in Mexico would probably be better than France

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by pugmire
I thought Camaro was french. Making them in Mexico would probably be better than France

Hey if they send there people over here for free, can we get our cars to come over here free? Just let one of the illegal aliens drive it in. Easier on them. Cheaper for us. win win scenario.

What kind of car is made in France that was worth anything.

[TimeLord]

Bugatti
Delage
De La haye
Citroen WRC cars
The Renault 5 Turbo
The Renault Alpine
among others !!!

Renault Championship winning F1 cars

Matras

[fastTa]

Money is the ultimate interest of politics as well as money is the ultimate interest of GM.

Did anyone bother to ask loyal f-bod owners what there interests were?

[fastTa]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28:

"Hey if they send there people over here for free, can we get our cars to come over here free? Just let one of the illegal aliens drive it in. Easier on them. Cheaper for us. win win scenario."

LOL. That is funny!

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Originally posted by losixxx-ntkid
I guess as soon as the way is clear a new plant will make F bodies in Mexico.
Another kick in the groin to the American worker.
After all "Camaro" is a spanish word.

There are 2 plants that are gearing up to produce Zeta architechture. None are in Mexico.

They are Ontario and Detroit. It'll likely be one of those two.