What is the hold-up on hydrogen powered vehicles?

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by TimeLord
All the US has to do is have less retarded laws that are made by tree huggers.

GOVERMENT STUPIDITY !!!!!!

This pretty much sums it up!

We have a lot of special interests who misinform the “largely ignorant” general public on issues, and use the government as a vehicle to push their agenda. I hate it(!) ...that is why I left politics. Instead of an institution that was designed to protect the rights of its citizens, it now plays the role of mamma bird with one worm and several chics to divide up the spoils. ...we now have a lot of “cause” based groups who could care less about the communities of interest they destroy pushing their agenda. It is beyond ridiculous!

[Firehawk734]

Originally posted by Dave M
I work at a nuclear power plant (perhaps the world's most famous plant, TMI) and I can tell you with 100% certainty that nuclear fusion plant (combining atoms instead of splitting them) technology is not even on the radar screen. This technology is still essentially theoretical and not even close to commercial application. But when and if it arrives, it would be pollution and waste free, and produce an enormous amount of power.

The company I work for, and now a few others, have filed early site permits with the NRC. This is the first step is construction of new nuclear plants. My company (Exelon) claims to have no plans for a new reactor, but is simply "banking" the site for possible future use (early site permits are good for 20 years).

What these new plants may contain, technology-wise, is anyone's guess. There IS a new type of plant being considered that uses helium instead of water to cool the fuel. According to the industry, it would be much safer and cheaper to build a plant of this design than a traditonal water-cooled plant. Of course there are always those that disagree. There is a prototype plant of this design being constructed in South Africa now. I'm not sure if it's online yet, but it is being built. This is probably the future of nuclear power, assuming there are no accidents or problems with the technology in the near future.

My guess would be, that with todays energy needs and fossil fuel prices constantly rising, you may start to see new plant construction within the next 10-15 years. It would have happened already if not for the public resistance; nuclear plants are an electric utility's most profitable by a wide marging, due to the shear amount of power they can produce.

Hydrogen powered cars are far off because of the design problems (crash resistance) and the need for hydrogen "gas stations" before it can become widespread. Hybrid vehicles really are the best choice right now. 60 mpg in the city? I'd take that for my daily driver. 0-60 is sluggish at about 9-10 seconds but that's why it is a daily driver and not my track car.

Ahh ok Dave thanks. I didnt mean to spread false information, like i said i wasnt 100% on it but I thought thats what i heard.

I remember having discussions in my chemistry class in 10th grade..oh lets see, that was about 10 yrs ago now? MY GOD WHERE DOES THE TIME GO?

My teacher said if any one of us ever came up with a way to fuse 2 atoms together, we would become perhaps wealthier than bill gates. That takes an enormous amount of energy or something to fuse just 2 atoms together, but yea, completely waste free.

I think we will get there eventually though.

[NY_Rebel]

Read this.... http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...lcellcars.html

GM has built this car, tested it, even let one of the news anchors take it for a spin ( Dan Rather.. I think)
It's an awesome car, but....don't hold your breath for them to actually start appearing on the highways.
Like some others have said, refueling will be a problem at the present time. Plus they have to give the oil companies a chance to get their ducks in a row so that the economy wouldn't suffer a catastrophic meltdown.
Can you imagine the economic implications if every oil refinery, every oil storage and distribution facility and every gas station in America was suddenly obsolete??

[Firehawk734]

Originally posted by NY_Rebel
Read this.... http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...lcellcars.html

GM has built this car, tested it, even let one of the news anchors take it for a spin ( Dan Rather.. I think)
It's an awesome car, but....don't hold your breath for them to actually start appearing on the highways.
Like some others have said, refueling will be a problem at the present time. Plus they have to give the oil companies a chance to get their ducks in a row so that the economy wouldn't suffer a catastrophic meltdown.
Can you imagine the economic implications if every oil refinery, every oil storage and distribution facility and every gas station in America was suddenly obsolete??

I could make a racist comment but i like being a member here LOL.

I just wanna know when the hell the US is going to start getting their hands on some of that IRAQI oil. Idont think it shoudl be free, but I think the US should get discounts.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

We pay about the average price for gasoline.

Hong Kong pays over $5.00
London and Paris are both over $4.00

...in contrast, Venezuela pays $0.27 for a gallon.

Our $1.79 national average is about average for the world.

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
Couldn't nuclear power be used to produce it?

Imagine the malfunctions that you could have. Instead of a nitrous sneeze blowing the hood & intake off, you would have a 50 megaton mushroom cloud and a 1 mile diameter crater where the track usta was,,,Cooool

[Dave M]

Originally posted by Firehawk734

My teacher said if any one of us ever came up with a way to fuse 2 atoms together, we would become perhaps wealthier than bill gates. That takes an enormous amount of energy or something to fuse just 2 atoms together, but yea, completely waste free.

I think we will get there eventually though.

If you want an idea of how much energy it takes to fuse two atoms together, keep in mind that the Sun is essentially a fusion power plant. The sun burns so hot and the pressure inside is so great that hydrogen atoms are forced together to form Helium. This eaction creates a great amount of heat and energy, thus sustaining and continuing the reaction until the fuel (hydrogen) is exhausted. After billions of years, 97% of the fuel in the sun still remains.

So, yeah, you'd be a rich man if you could do that. I believe it has been done in labs (not sure if it was with hydrogen or other atoms) but the power isn't even close to being harnessed commercially.

[Dave M]

Hyndai showed a fuel cell vehicle at the Geneva auto show. 93 mph top speed, 180 mile range, hydrogen fuel and water vapor is the only emmission. Testing may take place on public roads next year.

Hyundai's fuell cell vehicle

[Black97]

Originally posted by Firehawk734
I just wanna know when the hell the US is going to start getting their hands on some of that IRAQI oil. Idont think it shoudl be free, but I think the US should get discounts.

Because the US gouvernment strictly denies having gone to Iraq because of the oil.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Kevin - Blown 95 TA
Imagine the malfunctions that you could have. Instead of a nitrous sneeze blowing the hood & intake off, you would have a 50 megaton mushroom cloud and a 1 mile diameter crater where the track usta was,,,Cooool

NO, lol... hahaha... I mean use nuclear energy to produce the hydrogen in plants. Kinda like oil refineries -- hydrogen refineries.

Not nuclear reactors under the hood, lol...

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

GM just had a big news release. They're powering a plant in TX, i think, with two hydrogen fuel cells.

[TimeLord]

GM/DOW

Kind of a lame project,they are recycling unused Hydrogen into electricity.

Once the project is running full tilt it will make a minuscule addition to the total power requirements of the plant.

Want to bet this falsl under the alternate fuels scam,that gives companies 300% tax write offs!!!

[Roger in Kensington]

The November 12, 2002, edition of The Washington Times published an interesting letter on this subject written by Jim Hood of Laughlin, Nevada:

"Hydrogen is not like gas, which packs a lot of energy into a small tank. Unless hydrogen is liquefied at -400 degrees (F), it's not very practical. Much storage space would be needed if hydrogen gas were used in a fuel-cell powered car. A typical car's gas tank contains about two million Btu of energy, but only 700 Btu if it's filled with hydrogen gas at atmospheric pressure. If the pressure is raised to 150 psi (like a barbeque's five-gallon propane tank) this would be 7,000 Btu. About 285 barbecue propane tanks would be needed to equal the energy in a full tank of gasoline. Heavier, high pressure hydrogen spheres could cut the space requirement a bit, but most people have better uses for their car trunks."

_______

Keep in mind that it is far too expensive (and energy intensive) to produce hydrogen from water (water being an incredibly stable molecule which is one of the reasons it is useful for extinguishing fires). Instead, hydrogen is produced commercially in a methane-steam reaction under pressure, with the byproduct being carbon dioxide (yep, another one of those nasty ol' "greenhouse gases."

A fuel cell may be a very efficient way to produce energy, but producing fuel for the fuel cell is not.

Alas, another wonderful "solution" dashed to bits by inconvenient facts. :-)