Just test drove an 03 Cobra

[rufrider76]

look at the price. for the price of the cobra over a true mustang you could do a lot to a f-body for the same money. i mean if you want to run a 45k car vs a 35k dollar car fine but give me the f-body and the 10k and i will destroy a cobra. yes the cobra is stock but it is still supercharged. not to mention the thing rattles like a 82 firebird with t-tops. oh yeah and it's shifter should be in the ranger not a sports car

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

I can't stand this anymore... the die-hard loyalist f-body act is getting more than a little tired, guys...

..when something is faster, just admit it, go to work, and beat it. Don't whine about supercharged vs. N/A blah blah blah...

None of you seem to have a problem talking about how much faster your 5.7L V8 is over a 2.0L 4 cylinder -- when in truth twice the cylinders and twice the displacement is probably MORE of an advantage than forced induction is...

And where did this $45K pricetag for an 03 Cobra just materialize from?

I am tired of it. I love my f-body, and in the end I think it is the BETTER car... but it is not faster, and until you do the mods you are talking about, it won't be. The excuses are starting to get as lame as the ricer crowd who banters on about HP per liter to save face.

[rufrider76]

i do think that we have more of a advantage over the imports. that is not the problem. i am just saying that it takes a "tuned" more expensive mustage to beat a normal run of the mill f-body. the mustage gt a comparable car gets smoked by a f-body. the cobra is a fast car but run it agianst a firehawk

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by thomas
These new cobra's are supercharged with about 400hp right? Well what would happen if they put a supercharger on an 02 ls1? Wouldnt that be a fair comparison? Supercharged verse Supercharged. Id bet the ls1 would get better gas miliage too. From what I understand( aint much ) but the cobra's are faster stock but I've heard of stock ls1's dipping into the high 12's. Isnt that what they run stock? Even if the ls1 is a few 10ths slower its only a few 10th with now power adder. Dont supercharged ls1's run at least low 12's?

I've thrown about $3K in mods at my car... granted they aren't the QUICKEST way to add power (I could have thrown a 150 shot on for half that price). I now lay down 345 RWHP, and 360 RWTQ. That's about equivalent of 405 and 425 at the crank, respectively... I am right on the heels of hitting high 12s. Yes, some LS1s have done this stock, but that is under ideal conidtions with a one hell of a freak car and driver... The 03 Cobra usually puts down 360 to 370 HP to the wheels (which, on av3erage, is more than the vaunted Z06, by the way...). However, they weigh a couple hundred pounds more than we do. At 345 RWHP, I now think I am a pretty good match for a stock Cobra.

Another positive that I have to give to the f-body is the handling feel around turns. I know, I know, the Cobra has IRS, so it must handle better, right? Well, it certainly didn't feel that way. I have to attribute this to its piggy weight...

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by rufrider76
i do think that we have more of a advantage over the imports. that is not the problem. i am just saying that it takes a "tuned" more expensive mustage to beat a normal run of the mill f-body. the mustage gt a comparable car gets smoked by a f-body. the cobra is a fast car but run it agianst a firehawk

The Firehawk hardly shows any more power than the WS6. It gets defeated by the 03 Cobra also.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
I know, I know, the Cobra has IRS, so it must handle better, right? Well, it certainly didn't feel that way. I have to attribute this to its piggy weight...

and, the horrible front suspension.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by rufrider76
i do think that we have more of a advantage over the imports. that is not the problem. i am just saying that it takes a "tuned" more expensive mustage to beat a normal run of the mill f-body. the mustage gt a comparable car gets smoked by a f-body. the cobra is a fast car but run it agianst a firehawk

But you can't just always stack the odds in your favor like that... that is what bullies do. "Sure, run your SOHC 4.6L against my LS1!!!!" Pick on the Mach1... it would be a much better challenge. I think this is the most "fair" matchup of all... and in this one, the f-body does come out on top

[Supernova]

Originally posted by TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO
I agree, Thomas. I have gotten flak about this position before, but I will say it agian. The Mustang guys can brag all they want about the power the Cobras make, but the fact remains that they are comparing a supercharged engine to an N/A Engine. Regardless of the fact that it is stock vs. stock, it is still like comparing apples to oranges. Put a supercharger on an LS1 and then compare the two. I think the numbers would be quite different. Besides that, the interior is just plain nasty in my opinion. It's like a cross between sitting in a Honda Accord and shifting a pickup truck, just not "sports car" enough for me. But....to each his own. They are fast, no doubt. But there is also no doubt in my mind that the F-bod is still superior. Just my $0.02

The reason you get flak about this position is because the argument is ridiculous. You're comparing a stock car to a non-stock car. Compare apples to apples. Stock vs stock, the Cobra is faster. Period. Sure you can throw a blower on an LS1, but if it was that easy, everyone would have one, right? And then you're comparing a car with a MUCH higher compression and a blower against a car that has to be tuned to be reliable enough to have a factory warranty. All it takes to get 500-600 to the ground with an 03 Cobra is a new blower. The difference is that with the low compression, you can run massive amounts of boost through the otherwise stock engine. Try running 19 psi in an otherwise stock LS1 and tell me what happens... If it was just that easy to throw a supercharger on an LS1, everyone would have them. And the cost argument is just as ridiculous. I could buy a dumpy ass used GT and put nitrous on it and out run LS1s all day long--that doesn't make it the faster or better car. Just cheaper.

This has been beat to death on every message board known to man, and I'm sure I'm not going to change anyone's mind, but I figured I'd at least voice my opinion. Open your mind--there's a hell of a lot of great cars out there besides the F-body. Besides, are you just going to drive used LS1s for the rest of your life? What are you going to do when it comes time to buy a new car? Face it, GM has abandoned you and what you want. Screw them. I was almost ready to sign on the line to get an 02 SS when I decided that they can shove it.

[Supernova]

Originally posted by thomas
These new cobra's are supercharged with about 400hp right? Well what would happen if they put a supercharger on an 02 ls1? Wouldnt that be a fair comparison? Supercharged verse Supercharged

No, see my previous post. You're comparing a stock car that has to have a warranty, etc, to a modified car. That's like saying, "sure the F-body is great, but I could get a 99 GT and put nitrous on it and beat LS1s all day long." Who cares? And if you're going to say "supercharged vs supercharged," why not say, 5.7 vs 5.7. It's ridiculous! Once you start modding, all bets are out the window.

[Supernova]

Originally posted by rufrider76
look at the price. for the price of the cobra over a true mustang you could do a lot to a f-body for the same money. i mean if you want to run a 45k car vs a 35k dollar car fine but give me the f-body and the 10k and i will destroy a cobra. yes the cobra is stock but it is still supercharged. not to mention the thing rattles like a 82 firebird with t-tops. oh yeah and it's shifter should be in the ranger not a sports car

As an F-body owner, saying that Mustangs rattle is like the pot calling the kettle black. EVERY F-body I've ever ridden in (including mine) has rattled.

By the way, I could buy a used GT and put nitrous on it and beat more expensive cars all day long. It doesn't mean jack.

[Supernova]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
I can't stand this anymore... the die-hard loyalist f-body act is getting more than a little tired, guys...

..when something is faster, just admit it, go to work, and beat it. Don't whine about supercharged vs. N/A blah blah blah...

None of you seem to have a problem talking about how much faster your 5.7L V8 is over a 2.0L 4 cylinder -- when in truth twice the cylinders and twice the displacement is probably MORE of an advantage than forced induction is...

And where did this $45K pricetag for an 03 Cobra just materialize from?

I am tired of it. I love my f-body, and in the end I think it is the BETTER car... but it is not faster, and until you do the mods you are talking about, it won't be. The excuses are starting to get as lame as the ricer crowd who banters on about HP per liter to save face.

Thank you.

To each their own, but to use ridiculous arguments (like you've pointed out) to defend your position is sad. If you like the F-body fine, I do as well--as do most car people--but, Jesus, there's a hell of a lot of cool cars out there. The F-body is not the be all end all car like it was 5 years ago.

[Performin Norman]

There's a red 03 running around my lil town. We go at it every once in a while.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Supernova
Try running 19 psi in an otherwise stock LS1 and tell me what happens...

Ah, my friend, now you are overlooking something

The LS1 doesn't NEED to run 19 psi to throw out similar power numbers. An ATI D-1SC @ 8 psi on an otherwise stock LS1 will be good for around 500 - 550 RWHP...

However, the bottom end has trouble with boost beyond that... and you need new crank, rods, and pistons if you want to run much higher... there is a problem with the heads lifting off the block if you run real high boost levels, apparently as well...

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Supernova
As an F-body owner, saying that Mustangs rattle is like the pot calling the kettle black. EVERY F-body I've ever ridden in (including mine) has rattled.

By the way, I could buy a used GT and put nitrous on it and beat more expensive cars all day long. It doesn't mean jack.

Mine doesn't rattle. Seriously.

Crappy window motors? Check. Squeaky flip-up headlights? Check. Rattles? Absent... 2 and a half year, 35,000 miles... still young, but still solid.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Supernova
The F-body is not the be all end all car like it was 5 years ago.

I miss those days...