its time to face reality, Americans.....

[wolfdogs]

the latest fatiality statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin. caused a major consumer group and one U.S. Senator to call for the development and passage of more stringent new auto safety legislation......in the form of safer vehicles......

well.............

i'm going to have fun on this...because im he GSA Fleet representative for NHTSA ........and will get to sit in on some of these meetings... and i'm going to take a stand. enough IS enough........

short of suiting the driving public in armor and making everyone drive an M1 tank.........there is nothing you can do to stop this metal and pavement death madness......except 1 thing:

crack down big time on the driving public.

forcing the industry to beef up the vehciles mean price hikes on the offerings, it means less gas mileage from heavier vehicles in most cases..... and......... it does not matter.......

when you get some jerkweed in his/her suv......doing 85 in a 65, switching lanes back and forth.......cutting people off.....and then suddenly ...some person changes lanes in thier path....the jerk the wheel..the suv rolls at 85mph...hits two other cars/vehicles... you have death........i dont car how many airbags you have.....or what type of seatbelt harness......

ive been driving since i was 15..........and im 57.. im sure some folks here can relate that in the last 5 years, especially...the American driving public has lost respect for not only the automobile..but for eachother when they get behind the wheel. "me first".............."me me me me"....... running red lights, doing 90mph on the interstate...... no turn signals......tailgating at high speeds.........improper lane changes.......cutting across parking lots at high speeds.........flying through neighborhoods where children and peoples pets are present by the roadway........driving on drugs........driving on booze..........old people driving that cant even pass the eye exam and who's reaction time does not exist.........driving on unsafe tires........driving in unsafe vehicles.........stereo's cranked so loud they couldnt hear a 747 must less an ambulance........yakin on the cell phone in another world.........street racing on busy public roadways...........

no.......... building "safer" vehicles wont fix nuttin..........nadda.........

we need to 'fix' the drivers...........

how? more law enforcement. ... and im not just talking about cops pulling folks over writing tickets........ l a w e n f o r c e m e n t...............stiffer fines, much stiffer....more "loss of driving privelage" actions , more cameras and monitoring system development......stricter driving tests for license aquisition and renewal.......more regulations about what you can and cant do while driving......ie.: cell phones, ie: stereo's so loud the person in the car next to it has to close thier windows.....

in 2003 approx. 43,220 Americans lost thier lives on the road.... it was 42,815. SUV roll-over deaths rose 10% during this period...and guess what? those deaths represented 55% of all fatalities involved with suv's!!!!!!!!!!

it's time. America's driving public needs to take a deep breath...sit back......think about the responsibility of driving an automobile........get rid of "im bullet proof...........it will never happen to me"......attitude. cause if not............ more and more people will die..........and vehicles will cost more and more ....and safety devices will be overflowing out the windows........ and it wont change jack......................

im done.

[Dave M]

Ken, I agree with you 100% Especially with the stricter liscensing requirements. I'm constantly telling my wife that I'm finally going to write the Cracker Jack company and tell them enough is enough, stop giving licenses out in your boxes!! More testing for the young and the old drivers, heavier fines and penalties. We have to do these things before it gets to the point where there's a black box in every car and a camera on every corner (we're almost there now) because i don't think anybody wants to be under that kind of scrutiny.

The autobahn, with it's high speed cars and drivers and no speed limits enjoys a lower fatality rate then the US interstate system. Why? Better road designs, but most importantly, drivers who take driving seriously, obey the rules that are in place (no lane hogging!!) and are considerate to the other drivers. Simple as that. 4 simple things.

I don't think anything can be completely done about people's attitudes these days though. It's sad, but for about a week after 9/11, people were completely different drivers. Slower, more considerate, less hurried, sensable. I wish it was like that all the time.

[Joe 1320]

Well...... that about covers it.





With one exception...... The average slow poke who decides not just to hog a lane, but takes it upon themselves to play the "keeper of the speed" role by playing games and purposely trying to slow somone else down. I've seen many incidents of road rage over this. It goes right along with the lack of respect for each other. It's not just on the roadways either.

[SS_CarGuy]

I was just reading in Car and Driver where Europe will be imposing "Pedestrian Friendliness Standards" on all new cars produced in 2005 and beyond. What that turns out to be is anyone's guess because even C&D was speculating on the issue. They even talked to your Tim Hurd...at NHTSA....to try and figure out what that may mean in America. Obviously they got no answer only a statement that he would look at your "priority plan". Now your imagination can run wild on what these types of cars will looklike, but like you I think we attack the wrong things when we try to solve these problems.

Hopefully when you sit in on these meetings you can voice your opinions. Like you I think we are looking at all the wrong ways to solve our problems. It's the people.......not the vehicles. We need to stop all this silliness and attack the real issues here.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

I thought that I'd seen it all in the U.S.. It is a major problem, but coming to Kuwait sure opened my eyes to the blatent stupidity that is actually possible. I've seen all sorts of things in the past 2 months here.

-Driving at 100mph without lights on at night
-Seems almost everyone here meanders from lane to lane. I think lanes here are actually optional
-10% of the public drives at insane speeds swerving back and forth
-10% of the public here drives at very slow speeds swerving back and forth
-No fender bender dents on any cars here
-Numerous wrecks on the side of the road that I'd be surprised if anyone walked away from.

Just the other day by an off-ramp there was a suburban ON TOP of another SUV. WTF?!?!

Over here, I'm more scared of the highway than of any radical....

[Benm109]

I agree with all of you 100%. I think one of the big problems, at least down here, is driver training. How come you only take one driving test to get your license and thats it? I think drivers should have to take a driving test at least every 10 years. I haven't been driving too long, about 6 months now, but it amazes me how many drivers there are out there that don't seem to care or even know how to drive. I know I am not the best driver in the world, by far, but I would be willing to undergo a driving test every 10 years or so just so the roads might be a little safer.

How can they say that just making the cars safer will cause less deaths? Just look at the cars of the 60's. No airbags, seatbelts, "crumple zones", side airbags, etc. People weren't dying left and right from accidents like they are now. I don't get it, more people are dying now than ever even though they say our cars are as safe as they have ever been. Cars are not the problem.

I'll stop my rant now.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

"stricter driving tests for license acquisition"

This is a joke in Georgia. Mandatory drivers training. Period.

No offense to the cops but they need to be setting an example. Crossing gars, crossing solid white lines, no turn signals, excessive speeding when not in hot pursuit, illegal lane changes, and my biggest pet peeve not turning into the nearest lane.

Yesterday I had a car behind me cross a solid white line to try and pass me after merging from another highway. Well I was just coming to the end of the solid white line so changed lanes and accelerated. I saw him diving for the next lane so I changed again (there was a slow car in front of me in the previous lane) and he had the nerve to flash his lights at me as he was going for another lane to my left. Traffic offense 1 crossing the solid white line. Traffic offense 2 illegal lane change. He never "established himself in a lane. I did. Thanks to the new BMR sway bars it was a quick lane change. Traffic offense #3 another illegal lane change, traffic offense #4 tailgating. traffic offense number 5 is a new one in Georgia called ensighting road rage for flashing his lights while committing traffic offense #6 illegal lane change. Traffic offense #7 speeding because I had set the cruise on the speed limit of 55 and he passed me pretty quickly.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

I agree with most of what you said, wolfman... most. What I don't believe should be done is lowering posted speed limits. You are right that no matter what we do to our cars, a crash at 85 mph is going to have bad outcomes... The problem as I see it, is that the SUV that is "doing 85 and swerving in and out of traffic" is doing that because people constantly ignorea very vital safety rule... slower traffic keep right. It isn't a suggestion. Take a trip to some European countries with much higher - or unlimited - speed limits. They respect the principle that slower traffic must move aside for faster traffic. Not only that, but the higher speeds also insure that if you are going to drive, you are going to be paying attention. I think the majority of us have hit triple digits in our cars on an interstate at one time or another... weren't you just a bit more focused on your surroundings as you did it? Our general population doesn't have the cars equipped to be safe at 100 mph, nor do we have the infrastructure for it (cracked roads, short on and off ramps, etc...) but I think raising the limit to 85 and enforcing that as a hard limit unlike the way the 70 mph limit is a suggestion... as well as enforcing the slower traffic keeping to the right... I think that would help a lot.

[wolfdogs]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
I agree with most of what you said, wolfman... most. What I don't believe should be done is lowering posted speed limits. You are right that no matter what we do to our cars, a crash at 85 mph is going to have bad outcomes... The problem as I see it, is that the SUV that is "doing 85 and swerving in and out of traffic" is doing that because people constantly ignorea very vital safety rule... slower traffic keep right. It isn't a suggestion. Take a trip to some European countries with much higher - or unlimited - speed limits. They respect the principle that slower traffic must move aside for faster traffic. Not only that, but the higher speeds also insure that if you are going to drive, you are going to be paying attention. I think the majority of us have hit triple digits in our cars on an interstate at one time or another... weren't you just a bit more focused on your surroundings as you did it? Our general population doesn't have the cars equipped to be safe at 100 mph, nor do we have the infrastructure for it (cracked roads, short on and off ramps, etc...) but I think raising the limit to 85 and enforcing that as a hard limit unlike the way the 70 mph limit is a suggestion... as well as enforcing the slower traffic keeping to the right... I think that would help a lot.

i never said "lower the speed limit".................

but i never said "raise the speed limit" either.........

[markd79ta]

Re: its time to face reality, Americans.....

Originally posted by wolfman
ive been driving since i was 15..........and im 57.. im sure some folks here can relate that in the last 5 years, especially...the American driving public has lost respect for not only the automobile..but for eachother when they get behind the wheel. "me first".............."me me me me"....... running red lights, doing 90mph on the interstate...... no turn signals......tailgating at high speeds.........improper lane changes.......cutting across parking lots at high speeds.........flying through neighborhoods where children and peoples pets are present by the roadway........driving on drugs........driving on booze..........old people driving that cant even pass the eye exam and who's reaction time does not exist.........driving on unsafe tires........driving in unsafe vehicles.........stereo's cranked so loud they couldnt hear a 747 must less an ambulance........yakin on the cell phone in another world.........street racing on busy public roadways...........

This is exactly the problem. There is so much idiotic behavior on the road it is unbelievable. The other day I went on a tirade about residential areas. If a person can't get it through their head that excessive speed or racing is bad in a residential areas, then they don't deserve to have a license or anything else...period! Additionally, the worst accident I have seen in a long time was on I-25 going south out of Denver. It was bumper to bumper traffic going about 60mph. Any intelligent person should know that traffic is going to stop...eventually. Well, a misguided soul in a Ford Expedition didn't think about it, and of course he was traveling too close to the cars in front of him. So, what happens in bumper to bumper traffic when the traffic stops and a big SUV can't? ...carnage...something out of NASCAR. The SUV went over the trunk of the car in front of him, took the top off the car off, killed the people, went into the cars in front of the car he hit while cars were hitting each other and scattering all over the road. I shot a gap while the car in front of me and behind me were caught up in the accident. STUPID STUPID people! I think it all comes down to responsibility...we have lost site of responsibility as a society. Whatever happened to responsibility and consequences...nope we just blame our problems on somebody or something else instead of taking responsibility for our own actions...in this case, the cars are not safe enough. I spent last week with my parents who are now in their late 70s. Both of them grew up in the depression when they had nothing but fiends and family. My mom wore clothes of potato sacks that my grandmother sewed together. Today, they have all of the modern comforts, but they still long for the old days when there was concern and responsibility for others.

Yep, we have pretty much already reached the point where cars are too expensive to buy. We definitely need to change the way we license drivers. First, mandatory driving school, and I am not talking about AAA. Second, license reclassification. Full-size trucks and SUVs require different skills and knowledge then your average car. Similar to my motorcycle license, drivers need to take a course and perform a different skills test in order to get a light truck endorsement. (kinda stupid...but, so are a lot of the people driving these things) Third, crack down on aggressive driving, more unmarked cars driving among the public, and automatic license revocation for racing or high speeds in residential areas and business districts. Huge fines and automobile forfeitures for reckless conduct should be MANDATORY...no exceptions. The fourth I have misgivings about, but we need to raise the driving age in urban areas with special operator permits in rural areas. Some kids respect the rules, but too many don't. I am still trying to get the license number of this high school kid who comes screeching around my corner everyday. He is going so fast I can't even read the plate.

[Mark B]

In New Jersey, they just raised the fine for not providing proof of License, Insurance, or registration. It was $76 now its $172. Thats crazy!! But I guess it worked. I got that ticket last month.... And now I am sure as hell not going to get cought without my documents in my car!!!

But what I was saying... Why did they raise that fine and left the other fines alone? It doesnt make sense. I want them to more than double the fine for driving slow in the left lane, speeding, tailgating, reckless driving, etc. Mabey then people will stop doing that stuff too?

[Mark B]

Raising the driving age is easy for us to say now that we are older. But lets say we raise the driving age from 17 to 19, I dont think that will help much at all. The only difference will be that we now have inexpirenced 19 year olds on the road instead of inexpirenced 17 year olds. Even thought a person may mature a great deal within this time frame, I dont think that that necessarily means that they will be more mature in there driving.


Its a combination of maturity & expierence that makes a good driver.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Mark B
Raising the driving age is easy for us to say now that we are older. But lets say we raise the driving age from 17 to 19, I dont think that will help much at all. The only difference will be that we now have inexpirenced 19 year olds on the road instead of inexpirenced 17 year olds. Even thought a person may mature a great deal within this time frame, I dont think that that necessarily means that they will be more mature in there driving.


Its a combination of maturity & expierence that makes a good driver.

The state legislatures across the country are already addressing teen driving. It is only a matter of time before things change significantly. I think "Maturity" is the key element. ...not being mature enough to make good decisions. ...the, "I am indestructible syndrome!" Anyhow, I think it is good to give a learners permit to 15 year olds so they can learn to drive with mom and dad. That permit should carry over until they turn 18. I also don't mind granting a provisional license, after the completion of a comprehensive driving school, that allows teens to drive in daylight hours to and from school or work. (no passengers allowed until 18) (no points allowed until 21; any major traffic violation and game over). Things are different now especially with the population growth in suburban and urban areas. I feel for those that obey the rules, and I feel for my son. I want him to be able to drive at 16. ...but, irresponsibility attracts attention...negative attention...policy changing attention.

[detroitgene]

Give 'em hell, Ken - I agree 1000%.

What Ken describes are numerous negative aspects of what's reflected in what I refer to as our current 'up-side-down' society/culture. It's systemic fall-out from what we've gained through the advancements in a broad range of technologies and the general deterioration of what used to be common decency and respect - both within a family and individually towards others.

I’m so glad I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s. People were genuinely more civil to each other back then and I wouldn’t trade my experiences for anything. I think those that grew up during this same timeframe would agree – regardless of where you’re from.

Edit:

What really scares me is that these are what will become the good old days for toady's kids.

[Benm109]

I believe that raising the age that you can get your license would definetely help some. In my state, kids can get their permit at 15 and license at 16. This sounds crazy to me. I got my permit at 17 and my license at 18 and I thank myself and my family for that everyday. I know that if I got my license at 16 that I probably would have at least totaled a car or killed myself. I was not very mature at 15 or 16.

I think the keyword that someone said here was "maturity" and they are dead on.