Max tire size?

[69_YENKO]

Ok, so i just bought a 2000 SS this past sunday. I cant seem to get this thing to hook up, ASR on it bogs, ASR off all it dose is burn the tires. i have 275/40zr17 yokohamas now and they arnt doing the trick. so what do you guys suggest? there was a guy in town running 315s but i cant remimber what size rim he had. i have the 17x9 10spoke. just wondering what a good for the street is.

what is the max back spacing that will fit on the 2000? i have a set of slicks for my Nova mounted on 15x10 draglites with a 4 1/2 backspace will they fit, just for the track?

also, can anyone tell me what a '00 A4 SS should run ? i spanked a lancer evoloution earler tonight. he said his best time was a 13.8

[fastTa]

While the completely STOCK A4's are just a tad slower than the M6, you should still be able to manage a 13.2-13.3.

[Dave M]

You're going to get a wide variety of opinions on the tire issue. I like the BFGoodrich KD's if it's only a fair weather car, or the KDW if it's a daily driver. As for the traction, no matter what tire you have, you're going to have traction issues. You just have to find the point on the throttle where you get the slightest bit of spin without breaking the tires completely loose. Once you get rolling, give it more and more throttle. That's about the best you can do until you get some suspension upgrades on it. BTW, you need a 17x11 rim to go to a 315. It will be a tight fit, but it should work.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

My measly old stock 95 Z28 with 275/40-17 and 2.73 gears lights the tires up with no problem too. I have seen these cars hook up with wheel stands so I'm inclined to think that chassis mods are the only way to get it to hook up. I think the key thing is to lower the rear control arm mount to move the instant center back in the car. http://www.bmrfabrication.com/F-bodyDrivetrain.htm#cab2 That puts the weight shift closer to the axle. Also replacing the torque arm with one that mounts further back for moving the instant center back. http://www.bmrfabrication.com/XtremeDuty.htm Add the boxed SFC for the torque arm to weld too and to strengthen the frame.

[Injuneer]

For street tires, I run the BFG Comp T/A Drag Radial, 315/35-17 on ZR1 17x11 replicas. To get these to "fit", yet stay under the fender profile, you need the "Grand Sport" offset, which is 50mm. That produces a 7.93" backspace. On SOME cars, this requires a bit of hammering on the inner fenders and cutting the corner off the jounce bumper bracket.



Another popular 17x11 wheel is the ARE Torque Thrust II. These have a 7.75" backspace, which puts the tire slightly outside the fender line. This is Kelly Drown's T/A with the TT II's:



You might gain a little more room with the Nitto 315/35-17 Drag Radials, as they tend to be slightly narrower than the BFG's.

For drag wheels, you may need to do some grinding on the calipers (LT1 brakes) of possibly a spacer (LS1 brakes???) to get many 15" wheels on the back, including the DragLites. But for a 15x10 wheel, you need the 7.5" backspace. That wheel is available from Weld, but places like Summit treat it as a "special order". I run the Weld Pro-Stars, 15x10 7.5" BS, with 28" ET Drags. Its easier to fit a 26" or 27" slick, the 28's get a little tight in the wheel opening.



As far as suspension.... I can give you the parts list for what it takes to pull a 1.3 60-ft or run in the 8's with a 4th Gen F-Body. And it isn't a very difficult list. Upgraded LCA's, the LCA relocation brackets are probably the most important pieces, as noted in the post above. The torque arm is a little further down the list, and I would personally avoid anything that attempts to radically relocate the front mounting point, other than moving it off the tailshaft of the tranny, to the body. I personally like Spohn Performance parts, but there are killer 4th Gens running 1.2X 60-fts, using Spohn, BMR and even Madman parts.

Spohn Performance

Yes, you can pull the front wheels

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Oh yea, and replacing the torque arm has one more benefit. No more broken tranny mount. (It's way down my list too. I can't seem to find time to get my SFC welded on.)

[69_YENKO]

thanks, for the info--i guess i should work on suspenion before anything else that way i wont have a bigger mesquetio fogger.i forgot about the brake diametier when i asked about the 15x10s

injuneer, if you dont mind i would like to see your parts list, sounds like you know your stuff.

[Injuneer]

One thing you need to determine up front it whether you want a "drag" setup, or something that is more balanced for street and strip driving. The parts list, and the details of the individual parts will vary. You also need to indicate a tolerance level for noise and vibration. And finally you need to consider budget. Not a lot of super expensive parts, but some of them aren't cheap.

You need to think about whether you would ever consider lowering the car. Good for canyon carving, presents a few issues for a drag setup.

Some thoughts on the basics:

-Tubular LCA's. If you are into "quiet" and "drag" get poly bushings. If you are into cornering and can stand a small increase in harshness, a spherical rod end on the axle end, and a poly bushing on the body end eliminates bind that can hurt conrering response. Drag use - rod ends on both ends, and they may be noisy. You don't need "adjustable" LCA's unless you are trying to fit really large tires into the wheel wells.

-LCA relocation brackets. These were the single best part I ever put on the car, as far as traction. Originally developed for lowered cars, to restore the LCA geometry, they also benefit stock ride height setups. Keeping the axle end of the LCA below the body end develops body lift on launch, and the resulting reaction force pushing the axle/tires into the pavement. Have it the other way around - the axle end of the LCA above the body - and the axle actually "lifts" on launch, loses traction, axle drops, traction returns, and the cycle repeats.... = massive wheel hop. Not sure how these affect cornering and braking. They do offer at least two different levels for the axle end of the LCA, so it may take some experimentation.

-Tubular panhard rod. The rod locates the body side to side, so it is a little more critical to "cornering" than it is to drag use, but it helps in all cases. Again, poly bushings increase stiffness, reduce flex. For all out cornering capability, one poly one spherical rod end eliminates "bind". For drag use, rod ends on both ends. Adjustable is very useful. Allows recentering the body over the axle, very important if you are cutting the clearances close with wide rear tires.

-Adjustable torque arm. The torque arm keeps the axle assembly from rotating under load. The stock front mount on the tailshaft of the tranny causes problems with high HP applications. The driveshaft doesn't stay straight. The first level ot TA's is a model that fits in the stock mounting location, but is adjustable (pinion angle). The next level up relocates the front mount to the body. The Spohn arm bolts to the stock "g-load" brace location. The BMR requires a mount welded in and connected to subframe connectors. Everybody claims the TA is a huge aid in traction... I see it more as keeping the DS in the correct position. But maybe that's how it helps traction. You can also get a driveshaft loop with the TA.

-Alternative to adjustable TA - upgrade the tranny mount and the TA front bushing to ES poly. That will eliminate some of the flex from the system, and increase body lift on launch.

-subframe connectors. Once you get the power levels up, you need to stabilize the unit body, and eliminate power wasting flex. There are some very effective, reasonably priced weld in SFC's. Again, you need to differentiate between "cornering" (cross-braced design like SLP or KB DD's) and "drag" (simple box or tube connecting each) use.

-sway bars. Here's where you need to determine usage. Cornering likes big bars front and rear, drag goes so far as to eliminate the front bar, and stiffen the rear to the point that body roll is totally eliminated. I found that a good way to improve cornering body roll, without adding the weight of larger bars is to upgrade the bushings and end links to the ES poly parts.

-shock tower brace. Hard to say whether this is "decorative" or functional. I felt it helped with front end rigidity, and I know it will help once you start pulling the front wheels.

-springs & shocks. Again.... drag (QA1/HAL, Afco, Koni DA) or cornering (Bilstein, Koni)? Springs... stock rears or even V6 springs in the rear. A "drag launch" spring in the front. Once you start pulling the wheels off the ground, consider the use of "limiters" to control wheelstands and avoid wasting energy with too much lift. An extremely simple way to control the front end - better than wheelie bars.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by Injuneer
One thing you need to determine up front it whether you want a "drag" setup, or something that is more balanced for street and strip driving. The parts list, and the details of the individual parts will vary. You also need to indicate a tolerance level for noise and vibration. And finally you need to consider budget. Not a lot of super expensive parts, but some of them aren't cheap.

You need to think about whether you would ever consider lowering the car. Good for canyon carving, presents a few issues for a drag setup.

Some thoughts on the basics:

-Tubular LCA's. If you are into "quiet" and "drag" get poly bushings. If you are into cornering and can stand a small increase in harshness, a spherical rod end on the axle end, and a poly bushing on the body end eliminates bind that can hurt conrering response. Drag use - rod ends on both ends, and they may be noisy. You don't need "adjustable" LCA's unless you are trying to fit really large tires into the wheel wells.

-LCA relocation brackets. These were the single best part I ever put on the car, as far as traction. Originally developed for lowered cars, to restore the LCA geometry, they also benefit stock ride height setups. Keeping the axle end of the LCA below the body end develops body lift on launch, and the resulting reaction force pushing the axle/tires into the pavement. Have it the other way around - the axle end of the LCA above the body - and the axle actually "lifts" on launch, loses traction, axle drops, traction returns, and the cycle repeats.... = massive wheel hop. Not sure how these affect cornering and braking. They do offer at least two different levels for the axle end of the LCA, so it may take some experimentation.

-Tubular panhard rod. The rod locates the body side to side, so it is a little more critical to "cornering" than it is to drag use, but it helps in all cases. Again, poly bushings increase stiffness, reduce flex. For all out cornering capability, one poly one spherical rod end eliminates "bind". For drag use, rod ends on both ends. Adjustable is very useful. Allows recentering the body over the axle, very important if you are cutting the clearances close with wide rear tires.

-Adjustable torque arm. The torque arm keeps the axle assembly from rotating under load. The stock front mount on the tailshaft of the tranny causes problems with high HP applications. The driveshaft doesn't stay straight. The first level ot TA's is a model that fits in the stock mounting location, but is adjustable (pinion angle). The next level up relocates the front mount to the body. The Spohn arm bolts to the stock "g-load" brace location. The BMR requires a mount welded in and connected to subframe connectors. Everybody claims the TA is a huge aid in traction... I see it more as keeping the DS in the correct position. But maybe that's how it helps traction. You can also get a driveshaft loop with the TA.

-Alternative to adjustable TA - upgrade the tranny mount and the TA front bushing to ES poly. That will eliminate some of the flex from the system, and increase body lift on launch.

-subframe connectors. Once you get the power levels up, you need to stabilize the unit body, and eliminate power wasting flex. There are some very effective, reasonably priced weld in SFC's. Again, you need to differentiate between "cornering" (cross-braced design like SLP or KB DD's) and "drag" (simple box or tube connecting each) use.

-sway bars. Here's where you need to determine usage. Cornering likes big bars front and rear, drag goes so far as to eliminate the front bar, and stiffen the rear to the point that body roll is totally eliminated. I found that a good way to improve cornering body roll, without adding the weight of larger bars is to upgrade the bushings and end links to the ES poly parts.

-shock tower brace. Hard to say whether this is "decorative" or functional. I felt it helped with front end rigidity, and I know it will help once you start pulling the front wheels.

-springs & shocks. Again.... drag (QA1/HAL, Afco, Koni DA) or cornering (Bilstein, Koni)? Springs... stock rears or even V6 springs in the rear. A "drag launch" spring in the front. Once you start pulling the wheels off the ground, consider the use of "limiters" to control wheelstands and avoid wasting energy with too much lift. An extremely simple way to control the front end - better than wheelie bars.

I think we need to take up a donation for this. Fred should get paid for it.

[Injuneer]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
I think we need to take up a donation for this. Fred should get paid for it.

1. Its just my opinions... some people may have different views.

2. I "save" all these things in Word so I can "cut & paste" when the question gets asked again, or on another board. It doesn't take that much time or effort to post.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by Injuneer
1. Its just my opinions... some people may have different views.

2. I "save" all these things in Word so I can "cut & paste" when the question gets asked again, or on another board. It doesn't take that much time or effort to post.

Oh so you cheated! You had me going thinking you sat there and sweated over writing that novel just for us. LOL Good idea. I'd like to see you word files.