engine coatings

[N20LT4Bird]

Anyone ever coated internal engine parts? My buddy's father owns swaintech coatings and he said he would help me out with coating the pistons for me. He said that they can take some serious heat w/o melting with the coatings.

ANyone ever done this? What did you think?

[fastTa]

Piston coatings and poly-moly piston skirt coatings have been around for a while and it is very good technology. Pro-stockers and NASCAR have used these coatings for a while now because it works.

It is fairly inexpensive and it makes more horsepower. In nitrous applications like yours and mine, every bit of thermal protection helps from the extreme cylinder temps from n20.

My JE nitrous pistons going in the Z and the TA will have these coatings.

I think it is well worth it.

[N20LT4Bird]

So, I take it its worth it to wait a week to have it done. HE said I could stop by next tuesday night and he'll coat them up for me. Im just anxious to get back on the road!

[fastTa]

I think I only spent like $220 on having my skirts and piston tops done. But I was already on lots of other parts also.

I guess it will depend on much bigger you plan on going with the jets when you get everything back together.

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by fastTA
I think I only spent like $220 on having my skirts and piston tops done. But I was already on lots of other parts also.

I guess it will depend on much bigger you plan on going with the jets when you get everything back together.

Its not costing me anything except the time that I have to wait, so its worth it to have the extra insurance.. If I get them coated next tuesday, the car will be rolling by the following weekend. So, its not too bad.

Do you think there will be a power difference from having the pistons coated?

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by N20LT4Bird


Do you think there will be a power difference from having the pistons coated?

Not by itself, per se. The coating will reduce detonation tendencies and allow more total timing than noncoated. The motor will also be able to take a little more compression for the same octane of fuel.

[N20LT4Bird]

My program has taken a little timing out at WOT for the nitrous. Do you think the coating will allow me to put this timing back in? In other words, do you think that the coatings will allow me to NOT retard the timing for the nitrous?

[Joe 1320]

It should help, but alot will depend on the overall tuning, plug choice, etc. In general, my bet is that you will still need to retard it somewhat, but the overall timing will likley be higher than what you were running. Wideband tuning will give you the answer as to how much total timing. It might only be 2º, but at least it's something.

[fastTa]

The poly-moly coating on the skirts alone will make additional HP. Without the assistance of advanced timing or anything else.

Anytime you reduce reciprocating friction you will directly make more HP.

Sean, if they are allowing you to do the the coatings for free, have your combustion chambers coated with the Thermal Barrier Coating as well. With the piston tops and the combustion chambers coated with the TBC, you will greatly increase flame travel which in turn creates a more efficient and thus a more powerful combustion event. This = more HP.

The TBC will also help to eliminate hot spots which will significantly help to eliminate detonation. Especially important with n2o.

You can even coat the valve springs with poly-moly to add a little HP and increase the life of the spring.

With the skirts poly-moly coated and the piston tops coated with TBC, you can expect about a 25-30 HP increase. It is not much, but hey every little bit adds up right!

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by fastTA
The poly-moly coating on the skirts alone will make additional HP. Without the assistance of advanced timing or anything else.

Anytime you reduce reciprocating friction you will directly make more HP.

Sean, if they are allowing you to do the the coatings for free, have your combustion chambers coated with the Thermal Barrier Coating as well. With the piston tops and the combustion chambers coated with the TBC, you will greatly increase flame travel which in turn creates a more efficient and thus a more powerful combustion event. This = more HP.

The TBC will also help to eliminate hot spots which will significantly help to eliminate detonation. Especially important with n2o.

You can even coat the valve springs with poly-moly to add a little HP and increase the life of the spring.

With the skirts poly-moly coated and the piston tops coated with TBC, you can expect about a 25-30 HP increase. It is not much, but hey every little bit adds up right!

I agree with everything up until the 25-30 HP figure. IMHO, that is way too optimistic on such a small motor. I've seen those gains on S/C or mega inch big blocks, but there is just not that much loss on a typical small block chevy. Perhaps with larger shots of nitrous it may be attainable, but I think its more likely attainable after tuning is sorted out, not just a direct "bolt" in. Coating the combustion chambers is a very good idea. By doing pistons alone, you are only coating half the surfaces exposed to combustion. The same coatings can be applied to ports, the inside of headers, valves, springs and so on. The more the merrier. Especially if it's free!

[fastTa]

Believe me I was skeptical at first too when Kroyer Racing Engines in Las Vegas told me those numbers. These guys build lots of the NASCAR and Pro Stock motors and they are doing mine. When I talked to them about doing my shortblock, they said they had performed these coatings on 100's of SBC and LT1/LS1 motors and saw 25-30 HP gains on their engine dyno. And this is one of the most expensive and advanced engine dynos in the country.

Combination Motorsports and other nearby business on the Las Vegas Strip have sent shortblocks over to Kroyer to have them re-hone blocks. Kroyer would fully assemble the block to get a baseline pull. Then they re-honed and reassembled the motor to put it on the engine dyno. 22-27 HP increase was the answer! No joke. These guys are good.

Lot's of people (even some self-proclaimed motor gurus) think that there is not much power to be made from the shortblock. Well they are dead wrong.

On a small block motor, using a combination of a vacuum pump, low tension rings, poly-moly coated skirts, knife-edged crank counter-weights, a zero-tolerance blupreinted hone, and an oil pan with a 1 way windage tray, crank scraper, and trap door baffles, you can expect to make an additional 80-100 HP! And this is all due to reduced friction!

This is what separates the men from the boys.

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
Especially if it's free!

He said he would do the pistons for me. He didnt offer anything else and I dont want to take advantage of his generosity. I may hint around at coating the combustion chambers and see what he says. Beyond that, I dont know. I dont have the $$ to pay for it right now either.

Do you guys know if the head has to be disassembled to coat the chambers?

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
I agree with everything up until the 25-30 HP figure.

According to the guys that do the coatings, its a little known secret to making some serious power.

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by fastTA



On a small block motor, using a combination of a vacuum pump, low tension rings, poly-moly coated skirts, knife-edged crank counter-weights, a zero-tolerance blupreinted hone, and an oil pan with a 1 way windage tray, crank scraper, and trap door baffles, you can expect to make an additional 80-100 HP! And this is all due to reduced friction!

This is what separates the men from the boys.

What you are describing is basically a blueprinted stock eliminator engine. Offset grinding of the crank, matching weight rods and pistons, etc... there is lots of stuff that can be done that hasn't even been discussed. It is not simply due to reduced friction, It is more like getting each cylinder to operate identically to each other cylinder without the common variances from bore to bore at the same time as eliminating friction and combustion event variances.

[fastTa]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
What you are describing is basically a blueprinted stock eliminator engine. Offset grinding of the crank, matching weight rods and pistons, etc... there is lots of stuff that can be done that hasn't even been discussed. It is not simply due to reduced friction, It is more like getting each cylinder to operate identically to each other cylinder without the common variances from bore to bore at the same time as eliminating friction and combustion event variances.

No stock eliminator engine here. These shortblocks are going in both my Camaro drag car and my WS6 street car.

Fortunately the workings of a shortblock have nothing to do with an engine's streetability (unless of course you use aluminum rods). And alot of extra power can be had by reducing reciprocating weight and reducing reciprocating friction. Simple as that. A well built shortblock is all about precision tolerances and proper balancing.