headers...short or long

[lt14mla]

I was looking at headers as my next addition to my 97 Firebird Formula. Im a bit unsure as far as which header type to use. Short or Long tube. How do they compare? I think long tubes give you more power and torque, right? But then i was worried about bottoming out and clearance issues on my car with long tubes? Are clearance levels with long tubes a big problem? Also are pacesetter short headers anygood? and they say that theyre for camaros, but wouldn't they still fit on firebirds? Thanks in advance for your help.
-Lou


...and yes im in the process of shrinking my oh so large signature. lol

[Kevin V 2002 SS]

Go with the long tubes, the shorties, to me, aren't really worth it.

[DeWynter]

I would goto a good engine builder shop and tell them what you have for mods and ask them what they recommend for your setup. Picking the wrong headers can net you less HP than stock manifolds.

[Joe 1320]

...and yes im in the process of shrinking my oh so large signature. lol

No problem. Just don't post the signature until you can fix it.

It simply makes it easier on everyone's eyes (especially the moderators that have to scan through everything) not having to scroll though huge signatures and pictures because they become incredibly redundant..... especially when the signatures are way longer than the content of the posts.
Thanks for attempting to fix it.

BTW, it's the aftermarket Y pipes that are the most concern. That is what screws up ground clearance and fitment to the floorpan. Long tubes will be worth an extra 10 HP over shorties in relatively stock displacement milder cam configurations, more when it gets wilder.

[DeWynter]

No problem. Just don't post the signature until you can fix it.

Long tubes will be worth an extra 10 HP over shorties in relatively stock displacement milder cam configurations, more when it gets wilder.

I agree with this but its more important where in the rpm range your gona get the HP, It aint no good to have 10+ HP at 6000 RPM if your only driving around in the 2500-4000 range. The short tubes with samller primaries will give good tourque and HP gains in low RPM.

[Joe 1320]

I agree with this but its more important where in the rpm range your gona get the HP, It aint no good to have 10+ HP at 6000 RPM if your only driving around in the 2500-4000 range. The short tubes with samller primaries will give good tourque and HP gains in low RPM.

It appears he has an LT1.... that is going to turn at a higher rpm (6000) than the tuned port motors. He'll have to decide if the additional HP will be worth the installation headaches as well as Y pipe fittment. I've seen cutom Y pipes done nicely that didn't reduce clearance that much, but those are custom jobs and not off the shelf pipes.

As far as the pacesetters, I've heard good and bad. They are a lower cost unit, and my personal feeling is that you get what you pay for. Believe it or not, if I were running a stockish LT1, SLP ceramic coated shorties with a Random Tech high flow dual cat Y pipe is a tough combo to beat when you consider that the headers are a stock type configuration, the Y pipe moves the driver's side cat down next to the passenger side cat and has larger tubing too. All that without any decrease in ground clearance with a HP boost as well. I've done Hooker long tube conversions for a few friends and they were just as happy, but like I said before, it's the Y pipes that will kill your clearance. Besides that, you now have to run rear 02 sims due to deleting the cats.

My vote is keeping it smog legal and PDF. (pretty darned fast)

[fastTa]

I agree with this but its more important where in the rpm range your gona get the HP, It aint no good to have 10+ HP at 6000 RPM if your only driving around in the 2500-4000 range. The short tubes with samller primaries will give good tourque and HP gains in low RPM.

A quality tuned length longtube header will provide more HP as well as more overall torque than a similarly made mid-length os shorty. The reeason is because exhaust gases continue to expand far past the point at which they exit the exhaust port of the head and then enter the primary. The design of the long tube header is much more efficient at giving "room" for theses expanding gases to travel. This provides more vacuum at the collector and thus more of a scavenging effect within the cylinder. This not only allows more room in the cylinder for the a/f but it also helps to pull it in due to valve overlap.

LT's will provide more power under the curve and will provide more torque even down in the lower RPM range.

[DeWynter]

A quality tuned length longtube header will provide more HP as well as more overall torque than a similarly made mid-length os shorty. The reeason is because exhaust gases continue to expand far past the point at which they exit the exhaust port of the head and then enter the primary. The design of the long tube header is much more efficient at giving "room" for theses expanding gases to travel. This provides more vacuum at the collector and thus more of a scavenging effect within the cylinder. This not only allows more room in the cylinder for the a/f but it also helps to pull it in due to valve overlap.

LT's will provide more power under the curve and will provide more torque even down in the lower RPM range.

I have read every theory and statment for long tube headers. I just cant see any real world tests where this is a fact in every case. I've seen to many tests where LTs were soposed to make more HP and TQ and didn't and in many cases where they did it was only by such a small margin that it was almost accounted as an error. I wont argue that LTs dont make more HP, but in many cases is it really worth the 1 or 2 HP over a mid or short,Is it really worth all the troubles putting them in fabing custom y-pipes or dual Exhaust (over the top). In many cases the HP gains of the LT headers was in a rpm range that most people dont drive in. I think LTs are the way to go if your gona do serious Drag racing and 1/4 mile stuff. But for a car you want to drive on the street and beat the odd mustang and import STs and a good y-pipe are the way to go. Just my Two Cents.

[fastTa]

On a bone stock motor, the difference in gains will not be significant. But as soon as you start to mod the motor that's when the LT's start to shine. It is also true that on a bone stock motor that yes the LT's will push the peak of the curve a little higher in the RPM range, but as soon as you start to mod this changes very quickly.

Escpecially once you start to go with bigger heads/cam the LT's will make at least 15-20 more RWHP. About the only advantage the mids have is there ease of installation. But, many LT1 LT manufacturers are making LT designs now that install very easily and don't sacrifice much ground clearance if any at all.