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  • NFB: Terror threat inside U.S. ignored?

    Please note I endorse neither candidate in the election, but I know there's been a lot of Kerry talk on the board so I thought I'd throw out something different. In addition to F-body's, I'm a railfan and on one of the message boards I read this was posted:


    This is from the 8-16 issue of BushGreenWatch (BushGreenWatch.org)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Bush administration, which has ventured thousands of miles away to pursue still unsubstantiated reports of weapons of mass destruction, continues to thwart efforts to eliminate the very real danger of catastrophic terrorist attacks right in the nation's own backyard.

    The threat consists of chemical-laden railroad tank cars-- lethal cargoes which the US Department of Transportation characterizes as potential "Weapons of Mass Destruction."

    A hair-raising photo taken last September shows the Capitol dome in the background with a loaded, clearly identified, extremely dangerous chlorine tank car passing in the foreground, on tracks just blocks away (dangerous cargoes carry this identification to assist firemen and emergency personnel responding to an accident).

    "This photo is an indictment of non-homeland security," says Dr. Fred Millar, a rail security specialist who served as a consultant to Friends of the Earth on the issue of terrorism and dangerous rail cargoes. "The blindness on this is stunning," Millar told Bushgreenwatch.

    The simple, effective solution-- opposed by the chemical industry, the railroads, and the Bush administration-- is to reroute hazardous cargoes away from cities ranked as major targets for terrorists, such as Washington, New York, Chicago, Houston, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

    A sudden release of chlorine from a 90-ton rail tank car could create a cloud 40 miles long and 4 miles wide and be fatal 8 to 10 miles downwind. [1] If terrorists ruptured a tank car on tracks near the Washington Mall during public events such as the Fourth of July or the Inauguration, the deadly cloud could kill 100,000 people in a half-hour, according to estimates from the U.S. Naval Research Laboratories. [2]

    Dr. Millar, who also sits on DC's Local Emergency Planning Committee, has urged the DC City Council to enact a proposal to prevent the four most dangerous cargoes from passing through by rail or highway when practical alternative routes exist. "This seems a no-brainer," he told the council last October, "since re-routing would eliminate the attractiveness [to terrorists]." This could be done along the Eastern seaboard by shifting hazardous cargo to a rail route which runs largely through a rural corridor instead of major cities such as Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Newark. [3]

    If anyone doubts how easy it would be to sabotage a rail car, all one need do is take a look at the rail cars passing the Capitol with graffiti sprayed all over them. That graffiti wasn't put there by any security police.

    Although the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has conducted a study of the vulnerability of the Washington area's rail system to terrorist attack, it has repeatedly delayed the release. While a this federal report, the DC Council has held back on the rerouting legislation.

    On Capitol Hill, Representative Ed Markey (D-MA) proposed a bill that would mandate DHS to reroute dangerous chemical cargoes, but Congress failed to take up the measure before going on recess. When promulgating regulations on hazardous cargo security in March 2003, the Bush administration dropped any mention of routing from the final rule.


    SOURCES:
    [1] Chlorine Institute, Pamphlet 74.
    [2] Testimony of Jay P. Borris, chief scientist at US Naval Research Laboratories before District of Columbia Council, Oct. 6, 2003.
    [3] Testimony of Dr. Fred Millar on Bill 15-25 "Terrorism Prevention and Safety In Hazardous Materials Transportation Act of 2003," Jan. 23, 2004.




    The only problem with rerouting is that at some point these cars have to go to a city, because that's where the industry is. But if you don't think this threat is real, you are mistaken. Rail property is far too large to be under constant surveillance, and as the article points out, the cars are easily accesible.
    Dave M
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it!



  • #2
    to be fair, if anyone wants to read the whole thread, here it is:

    http://www.trains.com/community/foru...TOPIC_ID=20089

    There is a lot of good info about this issue in there, and a lot of arguments that back Bush.
    Dave M
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it!


    Comment


    • #3
      and its not just this either, Dave.

      as you know, I work right across the river from the Capitol. The "open doors" for major destruction and the killing of 100's of 1,000's of folks around here is unreal.

      one car bomb in a stal city garage would bring down 3 buildings. do they have security in the garage? heck no. oh........but to get in the bld... you have to walk thru a metal detector, x ray your brief cases, and have your govt. i.d. inspected..........

      makes no sense what so ever.

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      • #4
        Ken, if you think long and hard about it, we should all be cowaring under a table somewhere. The list of possible targets is mind-boggling, and it's why I have no fear of working security in a nuclear plant. There are much easier, more attractive targets everywhere. Think of the number of gasoline tankers that use our highways everyday, or the number of Haz-Mat trucks that just park overnight along the road or at a truck stop. Oil refineries, chemical factories, the list is endless.
        Dave M
        Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it!


        Comment


        • #5
          And this gents, is the reaon for taking the fight overseas instead of allowing it to be fought here. The terrorist organizations must be wiped out in their native areas and not allowed to spread worldwide. Because of our freedom, it is all but impossible to keep a control on a terrorists access to public places. We would be forced to give up so much of our freedom that "big brother" would force us into a society of captive pawns.

          I am not a fan of war, but I am a fan of taking the fight directly to those responsible overseas, wiping out the source and following that source to those that have infiltrated societies for the purpose of harm. We have to eliminate the source before we can clean up the residual mess.

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          • #6
            That's nothing compared to this!

            Can you imagine the devastation if even 5 of these were set off in the US? Knowing al-Qaida and there tendency for simultaneous attacks, this would be a devastating scenario.

            http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=29109

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            • #7
              Coudn't have said it better myself Joe!


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bond Hawk
                Can you imagine the devastation if even 5 of these were set off in the US? Knowing al-Qaida and there tendency for simultaneous attacks, this would be a devastating scenario.

                http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=29109
                I would like to think even the terrorists are not that dumb.

                They would hurt us badly, but our retaliatory strike would pretty much melt their desert homeland into a sheet of glass. It would seriously be the end of their entire culture.

                And if they were dumb enough to do something that extreme, the extermination of that entire region would make the world a better place.
                Thanks for playing, though.
                Tracy
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                • #9
                  Joe1320 - I agree we need to take the fight to them, the problem is we don't seem to know where the hell they are and if we do, it seems we can't get to them. At the same time, they seemingly could be anywhere - a very effective tactic on their part.

                  Solution: First take the fight to them - but within our borders.
                  1) Lock down and secure our borders first, and perform some serious house cleaning. For whatever reason, if you don't have the credentials to be in this country, you're ass is gone - end of story. Round up and ship these rodents out immediately. Sorry for wrinkling whatever the hell it is your wearing, but your flight is now leaving and you have been confirmed. Your next stop is the $hit-hole from which you came.
                  2) Keep these clowns from entering (or re-entering). Suspend the open-door '...give me your tired...' policy. That worked well when the people coming to this country did so to contribute and helped build this country, but not now when they come here to learn how to fly planes into our buildings. Replace the revolving doors at our borders with more stringent restrictions on entering and living in this country. What's that Ba-boo, you don't like it? No problem, we have a flight for you and you are confirmed (see #2 above) - now, who's next?

                  When we clean up our own back yard and keep it clean, we'll at least know that the enemy isn't here. When they want to start or finish something their extremist views calls them to do, we'll have much better visibility of where they're at and can respond accordingly.

                  Rant now over, thanks.
                  02 SS #9638 - Black/Black 6sp Hardtop

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You are exactly right Gene. That is the Domestic stance needed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To be honest...this is complete and total environmentalist propaganda. There are several environmental groups that are attacking Bush based on possible terror threats to further their OWN agenda. Go to the website. I don't agree with the extreme environmental agenda in any way shape or form. These people are the masters of deception and lies. I love the graphic of the cut forest stand most likely from the Pacific Northwest. What these people don't tell you is that the tree stands have been replanted since the early 1900s. It is so ridiculous. Well thought out and responsible conservationism is a good thing; extreme environmental protectionism is ridiculous and most people don't take the time know the difference or read this agenda and know the consequences. The election and Bush/Kerry aside, this website makes me want to puke!!! It is these kinds of people that are blocking resource extraction in ANWR (what a mess that was created to appease these folks), and it is these kinds of people that are filing a law suit to block Alaska from opening up the lands in the National Petroleum Reserve set aside in the 1920s for this purpose. Yep the National Petroleum Reserve lands can't be used because of Caribou habitat (at least, so they say.) Yep, we can't use our own resources so we are becoming more and more dependent on energy from an enemy in a hostile region. ERRRRRRRRRR!!!!
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joe 1320
                        You are exactly right Gene. That is the Domestic stance needed.
                        Correct,
                        But it will never happen. It would be way to politically unpopular. It would be an equal rights nightmare. The border to our south would require a military presence on every inch. Mexican-Americans would scream bloody murder and discriminataion. Arab americans would raise huge issues as well. The ACLU would take the issues and run. There is not a democrat that would support it.

                        It needs to be done, but at the same time is impossible. It would require a huge catastrophy to garner public support of such measures. Something like a WMD detonating on US soil.
                        Tracy
                        2002 C5 M6 Convertible
                        1994 Z28 M6 Convertible
                        Current Mods:
                        SLP Ultra-Z functional ramair, SS Spoiler, STB, SFCs, Headers, Clutch, Bilstein Shocks, and TB Airfoil. 17x9 SS rims with Goodyear tires, 160F T-Stat, MSD Blaster Coil, Taylor wires, Hurst billet shifter, Borla catback with QTP e-cutout, Tuned PCM, 1LE Swaybars, 1LE driveshaft, ES bushings, White gauges, C5 front brakes, !CAGS, Bose/Soundstream audio, CST leather interior, synthetic fluids

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by detroitgene
                          Joe1320 - I agree we need to take the fight to them, the problem is we don't seem to know where the hell they are and if we do, it seems we can't get to them. At the same time, they seemingly could be anywhere - a very effective tactic on their part.

                          Solution: First take the fight to them - but within our borders.
                          1) Lock down and secure our borders first, and perform some serious house cleaning. For whatever reason, if you don't have the credentials to be in this country, you're ass is gone - end of story. Round up and ship these rodents out immediately. Sorry for wrinkling whatever the hell it is your wearing, but your flight is now leaving and you have been confirmed. Your next stop is the $hit-hole from which you came.
                          2) Keep these clowns from entering (or re-entering). Suspend the open-door '...give me your tired...' policy. That worked well when the people coming to this country did so to contribute and helped build this country, but not now when they come here to learn how to fly planes into our buildings. Replace the revolving doors at our borders with more stringent restrictions on entering and living in this country. What's that Ba-boo, you don't like it? No problem, we have a flight for you and you are confirmed (see #2 above) - now, who's next?

                          When we clean up our own back yard and keep it clean, we'll at least know that the enemy isn't here. When they want to start or finish something their extremist views calls them to do, we'll have much better visibility of where they're at and can respond accordingly.

                          Rant now over, thanks.
                          LOL I couldn't have said it better myself. We let far too many people into this country that have no business being here. Can you imagine what it would be like if Mexico was a terrorist state? We would have terrorists standing out on the corners with their belongings in a plastic grocery bag for someone to pick them up to do odd jobs for cash to buy bombs. Some of our border security is a joke.

                          2000 Black Camaro w/3800 V6. Hotchkis STB, Whisper Lid, K&N, Flowmaster exhaust.

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                          • #14
                            Resuming previous rant...

                            TraceZ - You're right, it would be nearly impossible to implement such a domestic policy - at least at the present time. The way I see it, it would probably take another such catastrophic 9-11 incident to produce any interest in such drastic measures. As long as we don't see any evidence of 'it' coming, we won't do squat to prevent 'it'. But if 'it' should happen, and it's determined that 'they' were here in the U.S. illegally, then everyone and their grandma will want to lock the doors. I say start tightening things up now.

                            IMHO:

                            1) Would it be politically unpopular? Yes, but tough $hit - this is war.
                            2) Would equal rights be an issue? If you're illegal and wanting equal rights then guess what - you've got no rights in this country, so, tough $hit - this is war. We have a trip planned for you.
                            3) Southern Border, Mexican & American citizens screeming bloody murder? Tough $hit - this is war.
                            4) Arab Americans raise issues? BIG tough $hit! I see no overt eveidence of the Arab and or Muslim populations in this country coming together to actively denounce the despicable activities of their countrymen.
                            5) ACLU issues? Big TS there too, baby. Take a break, you guys can get back to business as usual once all the riff-raff is gone.

                            Sadly, I suspect, we won't begin to get tough until 'it' happens again.

                            Rant over (again)
                            02 SS #9638 - Black/Black 6sp Hardtop

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