N*F*B: A letter to Dubbya

[alenstein]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102304Y.shtml

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Are there ANY Democrats out there who can justify their vote for John Kerry without some lavish conspiracy theory? How about anyone who is actually on the "John Kerry" bandwagon - instead of the "anti-Bush" wagon?

I'm sure you would love to give me a reason for voting FOR Kerry... but you can't, because you have no idea what the man stands for.

[TraceZ]

That is nice.

Here are some things to consider. "the big picture"

Before 9/11 there was no patriot act. It was actually illegal in many instances for different branches of the government to share information, and it was also illegal to collect evidence to prevent a disaster before an actual crime took place. It was considered to be violating someones civil rights to investigate them without proof of a crime.

Before 9/11 it would had been so unpopular to institute additional "inconvenience" by adding extra security at airports that it was impossible to do. People were not willing to tolerate the extra hastle.

Before 9/11 it would have been impossible to prevent 9/11. People were not prepared to accept the sacrafices required, and the legal/law enforcement system was not prepared to grant permission to properly investigate and prevent it.

I can try to understand the emotion and passion of the writer of the article. People need to direct their emotions someplace to deal with loss. It is unfortunate that she has decided to misdirect her feelings of hurt, anger and hate from the islamic extremists and at G.W. Bush. She is correct that action should had been taken before the disaster. If Bush had tried to take that action the liberals would had torn him to pieces for trampling people civil liberties. It was a lose- lose situation for G.W.

so, the liberals will blame him for the disaster, but IF he had tried to get in place a system to prevent it he would had been demonized also as some kind of fascist dictator taking away innocent peoples civil rights. Heck, in our post 9/11 world that is happenning anyways. Some people still dont get it.

So, my challenge stands. Present a single liberal argument I cannot shoot down. You provide your liberal "truth" and I will provide the rest of the story to complete the "big picture".

The bulk of that article is nothing but hatefull acusation and pure tripe that is coming from her misdirected feelings. Go watch FahrenHYPE 9/11 and see the facts the liberals wont show you. This will once again give you the big picture. Liberals always claim to be more caring and compassionate. Why are they so eager to HATE?

[94 formula]

I wish you guys could meet my politics proffessor. He is the only college proffessor I've ever met who is conservative lol. He is an incredibly smart man and I honestly do not think there is one liberal theory he cannot shoot down. I also like how he can take about any Kerry statement and recall a time that he said the exact opposite.

[AmericanZ28]

Are there ANY Democrats out there who can justify their vote for John Kerry without some lavish conspiracy theory? How about anyone who is actually on the "John Kerry" bandwagon - instead of the "anti-Bush" wagon?

I'm sure you would love to give me a reason for voting FOR Kerry... but you can't, because you have no idea what the man stands for.

Well, one reason Im voting for Kerry is because Bush in on the way to become the first president in 72 years to overlook a net loss in jobs. The overall loss of jobs since January 2001 is 821,000!!!! And before anyone boasts about the unemployment rate, take into account the fact that the unemployment decline is not due to a rise in the employed fraction! (there is ) It is due to those without jobs who have stopped actively looking for work, and have therefore been excluded from the unemployment statistics.

Another is the Deficit. Bush blames the recession and 9/11 for the record budget deficits while the numbers from the Congressional Budget Office show that Bush's tax cuts caused about 2/3's of the 2004 deficit. Of those tax-cuts, most went to the best-off 10% of families, with more than a third to the top 1% whose average income is more than one million. This is, in theory, supposed to promote job/economy growth, yet the employed fraction has not risen at any considerable rate.

Yet another, is the soiling of the honorable service of veterans that were in the Vietnam war. This was an extremely low blow from the Republican campaign and Sinclair Broadcasting. Shame on those who allowed this trash and indecency of campaign politics to further encourage their support for Bush. It is anti-American! It just goes to show that there exists an anti-Kerry bandwagon just as there exists an anti-Bush bandwagon.

I think that what we need to do is get some independents in here to shed some light on all the skewed and one sided opinions and "facts!" Its late, I need some sleep! Let the flamming begin!

[N20LT4Bird]

Well, one reason Im voting for Kerry is because Bush in on the way to become the first president in 72 years to overlook a net loss in jobs. The overall loss of jobs since January 2001 is 821,000!!!! And before anyone boasts about the unemployment rate, take into account the fact that the unemployment decline is not due to a rise in the employed fraction! (there is ) It is due to those without jobs who have stopped actively looking for work, and have therefore been excluded from the unemployment statistics.

Another is the Deficit. Bush blames the recession and 9/11 for the record budget deficits while the numbers from the Congressional Budget Office show that Bush's tax cuts caused about 2/3's of the 2004 deficit. Of those tax-cuts, most went to the best-off 10% of families, with more than a third to the top 1% whose average income is more than one million. This is, in theory, supposed to promote job/economy growth, yet the employed fraction has not risen at any considerable rate.

Yet another, is the soiling of the honorable service of veterans that were in the Vietnam war. This was an extremely low blow from the Republican campaign and Sinclair Broadcasting. Shame on those who allowed this trash and indecency of campaign politics to further encourage their support for Bush. It is anti-American! It just goes to show that there exists an anti-Kerry bandwagon just as there exists an anti-Bush bandwagon.

I think that what we need to do is get some independents in here to shed some light on all the skewed and one sided opinions and "facts!" Its late, I need some sleep! Let the flamming begin!

First off, without sounding too cold, that letter is ridiculous. I can understand a parent's anger and the need to place blame, but try blaming the terrorists. There arent too many people out there that actually say Bush did a poor job handling 9/11.

To this post, I will add my voice to Jay's - this is another "anti-bush" speach. If they put a trained monkey on the ballot, you would probably vote for him too - as long as its not Bush. As jay said, can you add anything pro-kerry?

As far as the deficit goes.....i think it had a little more to do with a the two big planes that crashed into the world trade centers, haulting all travel, and sending the stock markets into major crash. You remember that right?

TAX CUTS DONT CAUSE DEFICITS. Everyone thinks that Bush is allowing the government to go without the benefits of those taxes. He is much smarter than that. A tax cut works by placing the dollar in your hand. You have it, so you spend it. 7-8% of it goes to the government as sales tax. Now theres .93 cents left on that original dollar still circulating. That is spent and 7-8% goes to the government. The cycle continues and the government gets its money (AND MORE OF IT), it just takes a little longer. Its reagonomics. The cuts HAVE and WILL continue to lead to economic growth. Its proven.

As far as soiling the veterans name - I cant believe that this is coming from a Kerry supporter. Read the book "Unfit for Command". Written and endorsed by 80% of the swift boat crew that kerry commanded. They HATE him. 80% of the people he served with and many are dead, so they cant speak. They'll tell you how he has dishonored their names. He is liar, manipulator, and just generally digraceful to the flag we fight for....and hes running for president

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Well, one reason Im voting for Kerry is because Bush in on the way to become the first president in 72 years to overlook a net loss in jobs. The overall loss of jobs since January 2001 is 821,000!!!! And before anyone boasts about the unemployment rate, take into account the fact that the unemployment decline is not due to a rise in the employed fraction! (there is ) It is due to those without jobs who have stopped actively looking for work, and have therefore been excluded from the unemployment statistics.

Another is the Deficit. Bush blames the recession and 9/11 for the record budget deficits while the numbers from the Congressional Budget Office show that Bush's tax cuts caused about 2/3's of the 2004 deficit. Of those tax-cuts, most went to the best-off 10% of families, with more than a third to the top 1% whose average income is more than one million. This is, in theory, supposed to promote job/economy growth, yet the employed fraction has not risen at any considerable rate.

Yet another, is the soiling of the honorable service of veterans that were in the Vietnam war. This was an extremely low blow from the Republican campaign and Sinclair Broadcasting. Shame on those who allowed this trash and indecency of campaign politics to further encourage their support for Bush. It is anti-American! It just goes to show that there exists an anti-Kerry bandwagon just as there exists an anti-Bush bandwagon.

I think that what we need to do is get some independents in here to shed some light on all the skewed and one sided opinions and "facts!" Its late, I need some sleep! Let the flamming begin!

I'm not going to touch the swiftboats crap... I'm not going to cast my vote AGAINST Kerry (I'll leave that to the Kerry "supporters" to do against Bush). I don't care about his service record, or what he did or said about Vietnam.

So the deficit angers you? Why? Name one tangible issue the deficit has caused you in your life today. When kept under control, a deficit is probably more beneficial for the nation's economy... I agree Bush may be spending a bit to lavishly right now... but I certainly don't see Kerry's plan curtailing that spending. In fact, I see him spending more.

Also, your beef about jobs being followed by the concern over the deficit is a little funny... you do realize that the deficit is one of the only things slowing the process of outsourcing overseas, right? If not, read my election thoughts thread.

In regards to a net job loss, have we lost jobs? Absolutely, there is no debate. But, how shocked would you be if I told you that the number of jobs we have IMPORTED is greater than the number of jobs we have EXPORTED? Don't take my word for it. Take Peter Drucker's in the January '04 issue of Fortune magazine... http://www.mdtaxes.org/NEWS-Stories-...ts.1-12.04.htm

So what's left? The net job loss was caused by companies downsizing, firing, and lay-offs, and NOT outsourcing. You mean to tell me that during a recession, companies cut jobs to make sure they stay competitive in a more difficult market? Wow, who wouldda thought? At the same time, giving a tax cut puts money BACK in the hands of the people to spur spending. More spending = greater demand = the greater need for labor supply. I have no doubt that Bush's tax cuts were the biggest key in stopping this country from seeing a full-blown depression.

[TraceZ]

I'm not going to touch the swiftboats crap... I'm not going to cast my vote AGAINST Kerry (I'll leave that to the Kerry "supporters" to do against Bush). I don't care about his service record, or what he did or said about Vietnam.

So the deficit angers you? Why? Name one tangible issue the deficit has caused you in your life today. When kept under control, a deficit is probably more beneficial for the nation's economy... I agree Bush may be spending a bit to lavishly right now... but I certainly don't see Kerry's plan curtailing that spending. In fact, I see him spending more.

Also, your beef about jobs being followed by the concern over the deficit is a little funny... you do realize that the deficit is one of the only things slowing the process of outsourcing overseas, right? If not, read my election thoughts thread.

In regards to a net job loss, have we lost jobs? Absolutely, there is no debate. But, how shocked would you be if I told you that the number of jobs we have IMPORTED is greater than the number of jobs we have EXPORTED? Don't take my word for it. Take Peter Drucker's in the January '04 issue of Fortune magazine... http://www.mdtaxes.org/NEWS-Stories-...ts.1-12.04.htm

So what's left? The net job loss was caused by companies downsizing, firing, and lay-offs, and NOT outsourcing. You mean to tell me that during a recession, companies cut jobs to make sure they stay competitive in a more difficult market? Wow, who wouldda thought? At the same time, giving a tax cut puts money BACK in the hands of the people to spur spending. More spending = greater demand = the greater need for labor supply. I have no doubt that Bush's tax cuts were the biggest key in stopping this country from seeing a full-blown depression.

Nice post Jay. You beat me to it.

The thing is that people that truely understand the big picture see things clearly like this. I wish I could get more people to listen. Most liberals are closed mided to the big picture even if you put it right in front of them. I think it is credited to years of the liberal press brainwashing people.

[Thomas L. Parker]

Some choose to ignore the facts

We have been at war since the World Trade Center was bombed the first time and in fact long before that. 9-11 was a "home game" for us and we lost.

We took a huge hit in the financial world over 9-11 but our economy is robust enough to have made a remarkable comeback in just 4 short years.

Our industry has been under a steady migration from manufacturing to service. This has been going on for a number of years but has been so gradual that few have noticed. Those factory line jobs are not coming back and no president can magically stop the flow. We are in transition, we need to recognize it and do something about it before it is too late. We must educate and prepare ourselves for futures in a more service oriented economy.

We really need a new public information source. We need to get the facts without editorial spin. As a nation, we are smart enough to make decisions for ourselves. What we need is an information source that keeps us informed with facts that we need to know. This does not include hourly reports on some blonde bimbo that makes sex films and lost her dog at 2 PM this afternoon! There is plenty of information that we do need to know, like when the next F body is going to hit the market!

So, we have a segment of society that can conveniently forget what this country has gone through and willfully ignores the issues of the day. This same segment thinks that our enemies will simply back off and all will be goodness and light. Just ask Spain how well that approach works.

So, fellow F-ers, what are we to do? We are in it for the duration and that means selecting leadership that stands the best chance of getting us to tomorrow safe and sound. What's more, don't just elect them, stand by them and tell them what you think. We've got to participate!

Tom

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

Well, I have given it a lot of thought, and have come to the conclusion that God is punishing the Liberals by giving them a candidate that even they do not like. Driven by their hatred for George Bush and their resentment for losing the last election, they find themselves supporting an indecisive, opportunistic billionaire, a man without substance, lacking in ethics and morals, one with an empty soul and a pathetic, tunnelvisioned hunger for power. If he loses the election, will he wander off and become a recluse and grow a beard like Al Gore did? If he wins, will he prove to be a dismal failure and bring further disgrace on his own kind and embarrass and weaken our nation while rallying the conservatives? You Liberals better do some real soul-searching, because the chilling reality of what you wish for might not really be what you want.