The new GTO (Longwinded, but read anyway!)

[RangerBob]

where is the link to the USA GTO?

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

GM is doing the best I have ever seen...

Since I have been alive (1982)... I have seen General Motors build some of the most uninteresting and poorly put-together cars that have ever disgraced the streets of America. Their quality was in fact SO BAD in the 1980's that they recently began an ad campaign APOLOGIZING for their inadequacies. With a few exceptions, the Corvettes and the f-bodies included... GM has payed little attention to innovation, style, ride, and build quality.

Enter Bob Lutz.

All of a sudden things change. People are ALWAYS resistant to change at first. The death of the f-bodies is certainly a downfall to us -- but a wise economic decision for GM. In the last few years at the North American International Auto Show, GM has stolen the show with their concept cars. They have come up with more, better looking, more powerful, and more innovative cars than any other car maker. Now the question that has to be asked is, "will they actually build them?"

So far, that answer is a resounding yes.

The Cadillac line is being re-styled form head to foot. This fall, the XLR will become the most beautiful roadster on the road. Next spring, the CTS-V will be introduced with over 400 HP and hand the M5 a long deserved butt-kicking -- AND cost less. The STS will also be re-styled.

Pontiac has re-done the Gradn Prix GTP -- and they have defintiely taken a step forward. The GTO is something to get very excited about - the return of an American legend. Personally, I think the simplistic design of it will only add to its appeal once people realize how fast it is. It is not designed to compete with a Mustang -- the GTO is much larger -- also the reason for its 0-60 times being more than 5 seconds. The Grand Am nameplate will be dropped next year, its replacement is the still un-named G6. The G6 concept car had a supercharged V6, with AWD turning out 285 HP. That is definitely an improvement. The closer they stay to the concept, the better.

Chevrolet is re-doign the Corvette. How do you improve upon what is already the greatest sportscar value in the world? You are about to see it next year. If the Z06 versions do in fact carry 500 HP -- get ready to spank Vipers and send Ferraris to the corner. On the SSR issue -- it is a niche car. If they produce too many, yes it will fail. However, there is a small market for it. Chevy just has to guard against overproduction.

There is a lot to be excited about as a GM fan. Moreso today than there ever was. In GM's new ad campaign they say, "we think it is safe to say we've turned that corner." I would have to agree with them.

I hope I answered your question

[wolfdogs]

the new GTO does about as much for me as...........a buffalo f@rt.....................

[TimeLord]

MyCamaro is gone!!!! You should post this on SLP,you want responses and flames,,,hee hee hee,,,

This subject was raised several times,the brand loyal Zombies love it,car junkies generaly hate it !!!

I agree with your assessement of the GTO,also LOATHE the SSR !!!!!

[badTAbird]

Mopar

I use to think that Mopar ment
Move Over Pontiac Are Racing ,
now I think it means
Move Over Pontiacs Are Retired!
I think the new GTO is LAME. I don't care if it ran 0-60 under 2 sec it's still looks like it should be a 4 door
WOW I'm Excited.....NOT

[wolfdogs]

grand prix with big wheels and a Camry spoiler.

[JL8Jeff]

GM always stops making a vehicle after they get it right. The Monte Carlo SS of the 80's(although it should have had a 350), the Buick Grand National, the Impala SS of the 90's, the SS454 pickup, the Syclone pickup, the F-body. The new extended cab AWD SS pickup is a joke, the GTO is a name ripoff. Fortunately for me, I'm not in the market for a new vehicle so it doesn't bother me as much right now. Hopefully by time I'm thinking about a newer car, they will have figured things out and start producing some real performance cars again.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by JL8Jeff
.... Hopefully by time I'm thinking about a newer car, they will have figured things out and start producing some real performance cars again.

"REAL performance"???

You guys are entitled to your opinions about the cars... but the cars GM is coming out with now are amazing performers.

C6 Z06 rumored to be 500 HP... CTS-V will pack the punch of the LS6 plus a 3.73 rear end... GTO will have 350 HP... these are some pretty serious performance numbers. And unlike the Monte Carlo SS, Buick Grand National, and Impala SS, these cars will be able to TURN too.

By the way... I personally LOATHE the SSR too... but it will fit its niche.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Wow, this is one depressing thread...with the exception of Jay.

Let's see if I can help raise some spirits a little.....

The only argument I have seen that may hold any water on the GTO is styling. It is a 350HP LS1 V8 RWD coupe. It has a true dual exhaust and a 3.45 or so rear axle differential. The car was tuned for torque down low. The rear seats have enough room to hold 2 adults comfortably. It sits on a modern chassis that doesn't have the squeeks and rattles of an F-bod and is much more rigid. The interior is of a quality far surpassing anything we are used to in our cars. Handling is said to be top notch and on par with our cars, but without the bone jaring suspension. With a weight comperable to our cars, I think it's safe to say that acceleration will be comperable as well. Take a drive in one before you pass judgement on anything but styling. I'm sure you'll be surprised.

Now to say the styling isn't your thing...I understand that. It's subjective. The styling is conservative and not what we may be into considering what we drive. It isn't ground breaking, but to say the car will be flop based on that? I respectfully disagree.

GTO is going to be a flop? Don't thinks so and you will see sales will back me up. Only 18,000 are being imported for the next 3 years. They will sell everyone with little trouble.

Now if you're still not satisfied...GM will offer a redesigned US built GTO on a new platform beginning in 2006 or 07.

Still not satisfied? Well, word is out that Camaro is making it's way toward production in 2007. Built of the same chassis as the redesigned GTO. We will be hearing more bits by NAIAS. Affordable V8 RWD performance will return.

A new full size performance RWD platform will be debuting around 07 as well.

Impala and Monte Carlo will be going V8 in 2006 and will switch over the the updated W-platform known as Mid-Lux.

This is all happening while people sit and fume. Performance is not dead at GM. Easy to get discouraged when you only see a small piece of the picture. If anything GM has improved immensly from what it was in the 90's.

[markd79ta]

A Different Opinion

The GTO was brought to production fairly quickly so they didn't have time to do a lot of styling with it. I think the plan is to rework the styling in '05, style the scoops, and put in the LS6. Who knows... I think the car has a LOT of potential; it will just take some time. I will never forget the 135hp ugly '82 Trans AM..what a piece of junk!!! I thought Trans AMs were over. Well, by '85, the styling emerged, and by '86, you could get a TPI 350. My first thought that the 3rd gens were garbage that will never compare to my '79 gave way to a car I really liked in my '90, and who could ever argue with the TTA. GM is recovering from some bad executive advise in the 90s, and it will take some time to get the aggressive cars back.

I must disagree with the comments regarding GM in the 80s. Compared to F.O.R.D. and Mopar, GM led the way. It was definitely a time of trial and error, but GM put out the TPI cars, the 4th gen Vette, the Grand National, the TTA, etc. Shoot, the Grand National is the only 80s car on the top 50 muscle car list. There was definitely some cr*p put on the road, but some incredible stuff as well; most of the big cruising cars were pretty darn good. The LT5 was incredible, and who can say enough about the Nothstar...both designed in the late 80s. So much of the computer technology that has evolved today was pioneered by GM. During the 90s, the LT1 was a great motor and the LS1 is a home run. I work at the Denver capitol building, and I work a lot with law enforcement. I never stop hearing about how much the patrol officers want their Caprices back. Unfortunately, it was the same unenlightened executives that led the RWD full size and f-body platforms to their grave.

Anyway, keep an open mind. The GTO is back. It may not be what we want it to be right now, but who knows what it will turn into. Goodness, the Cross-fire, kidney busting '84 C4 evolved into the ZR1! ...anything could happen.

[markd79ta]

Thanks Joe and Jay!!!

[TimeLord]

They would have saved themselves a lot of grief if they had simply called it anything but GTO !!!!

It may be a great car,but it is a rebadge stopgap measure[better than nothing,yes]

As long as they don't pull the same bonehead move FORD did with the XR4-Ti[soften the suspension/kill the shift points etc etc].

GM has some good models coming,yes.

They also have Cavaliers and Monte Carlos we are supposed to get excited about???

The 04 Grand Prix is a huge step in the right direction[hoping build quality is there] !!!!!

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Originally posted by TimeLord

They also have Cavaliers and Monte Carlos we are supposed to get excited about???

Cavalier is toast. Replaced by Cobalt on the new Epsilon(?) chassis. But seriously, when was the last time any F-body enthusiast was excited about a Cavalier, or Sunbird, or even Civic or any other base model??

Monte Carlo future is a little uncertain right now.

[markd79ta]

To be honest, I am excited to see the GTO again, especially a RWD performer. The aftermarket will turn this car into a beast! It is not a Pontiac nor was the 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies. I have my '79 with its W72 400 block, and I am happy. Maybe I will get a '66,7 GTO or a '57,8 Pontiac Chieftain someday, but I can still appreciate having this car back. There is no such thing as a purest car anymore, well...maybe the Vette. ...but, it is a different era and time now. Shoot, the '94-'96 Impala SS had nothing in common with the old Impalas, but they are dearly loved.

[TimeLord]

I was using the WE for the general population viewpoint,not us hardcores.

GM ads try to convince people that Cavaliers and Sunbirds and Monte Carlos are the cats meow as far as performance goes.

Ford has the little FOCUS SVT

MOPAR has the Neon SRT-4

GM has .........................[for now]