The new GTO (Longwinded, but read anyway!)

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by TimeLord
Ford has the little FOCUS SVT

MOPAR has the Neon SRT-4

GM has .........................[for now]

I don't know if I would be all too happy to see GM develop vehicles such as these, but I know that there is a market for such things...ouch!

F.O.R.D. also made a FWD Cougar to fit in this market segment. That was sacrilegious! I see one of these mechanical marvels with the rector set wing when I walk to work from my car. I don't get the whole performance econo car thing. I guess it looks cooler then a K Car.

The Monte would be one sweat ride if it was RWD with an LS1. It is so sad to look at it, and know that it is FWD underneath. I especially get disgusted when I see that abomination of a FWD Impala...goodness................ those marketers/designers should be taken out back... Some of the people making decisions have no respect nor the EPA and government for addressing legacies. Kinda sad......

[TimeLord]

Dead on !!!!!

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Ahh...ok. I didn't understand you meant general population.

Ecotech engine can be made to handle a respectable amount of power. I don't know if they'll do that with Cobalt, but Saturn has it's redline series. Ion and Vue will each have a supercharged ecotech puting out at least 200HP. Would be nice if they put it in Cobalt too!

I've always seen Chevy market the current Monte as a stylish cruiser with good power, which it is. It still outperforms the 80's version (especially in 240 HP SS garb)which was, for a bit, put forward as a return to classic muscle. I remember the car rags reviewing it as such. Actually, the current Monte outperforms any model Monte before it.

The Impala is filling the same role it has traditionaly. In that way it's not sacriligous. Impala was a family car. There were the rare big block SS models, but for every one of them there were literaly thousands of putt-putt I6 family-mobiles.

[JL8Jeff]

There was no reason to call the Holden the GTO. And GM didn't build it so giving them credit is a stretch. Yes, I'm glad there is a rwd V8 Pontiac, but it's not my kind of styling. The SSR, forget about it. The extended cab AWD SS at $40K is a joke too. If they come out with the standard cab SS with an LS1 or LS6 with a 6 speed option and price it at $25K or less, then that deserves to be called an SS. The Corvette has always been one of the best performance car buys out there, but it's also out of most enthusiasts price range so it shouldn't even be discussed. It's safe to say that GM doesn't have anything that can compete with the Cobra or Lightning at this point in time. I sure hope it changes soon though.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Joe K. 96 Zeee!!
........

The Impala is filling the same role it has traditionaly. In that way it's not sacriligous. Impala was a family car. There were the rare big block SS models, but for every one of them there were literaly thousands of putt-putt I6 family-mobiles.

Good point with the Impala... think they could keep the family versions FWD, and offer an SS RWD version with the LS1?

Back to the original point... GM is headed in the right direction.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by JL8Jeff
There was no reason to call the Holden the GTO.

Holden is a child company of GM. Shoot, Holden has continued to build on the Caprice, and they still sell them there. Most of the engine technology is brought down from GM. I don't see a problem with GM using the technology of all its holdings. They still build RWDs in Australia, and GM let them go in the States so we will probably see this technology come back from the Holden facility. The Duramax was designed by CAT, and it is built by Isuzu since this GM holding has the diesel plant. The divisions of GM are not autonomous anymore nor is any auto manufacturing company. The only GM division that is somewhat autonomous is Cadillac.

Give GM time; there is a lot of work to be done, and it won't happen over night. But, they are taking steps toward our goals. I am a Pontiac enthusiast through and through, and I can accept the new GTO for what it is. Goodness, Mercury people are criticizing the new Marauder, and that thing is bada$$. The new GTO may not be the best styled car on the outside, but it will evolve. Personally, I feel as though they should get far more aggressive with it, and ditch the new Pontiac grill scheme. I can't stress enough that a lot of cars were ugly as sin when they started out, but evolved into nice looking vehicles. I can also say that a LS1, RWD, six speed two door coupe will definitely do what I want it to when I hit the gas. Now, I would love to have a long, 4500lbs, two door coupe, ragtop with a modern Pontiac EFI 455 big block with 500hp, built off the '66-7 design, but that is just not going to happen...unfortunately, those days are over. I can't wait to see what this thing looks like in '05 when it undergoes its face-lift and the scoops installed. Also, I love the interior of this thing. It will be a fairly nice upgrade from our 4th gen f-bodies. On the truck front. Those things are off the deep end. When you can't get a 4X4 1/2 ton or better for under $30,000, the world has gone to heck. It is all about putting a Caddy in a four wheel drive now. I don't understand it nor do I want to. Personally, the Lightning or the SS don't interest me. I want a truck that I can rip tree stumps and poles out of the ground, take up to the mountains and bang the cr*p out of it...that is why I drive a '77 K5.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
Good point with the Impala... think they could keep the family versions FWD, and offer an SS RWD version with the LS1?

Back to the original point... GM is headed in the right direction.

True, we just got really spoiled with the '94 to '96 models which made the new model unbearable/unthinkable. Going from an LT1 RWD custom cruiser to a V6 FWD Camery was soooooooooooo disheartening!

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

I agree... if you want to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds... don't buy a truck.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Originally posted by JL8Jeff
It's safe to say that GM doesn't have anything that can compete with the Cobra or Lightning at this point in time. I sure hope it changes soon though.

Yup, and it's painfully obvious right now. There's nothing really now to compete with the likes of the whole Mustang lineup, Z, eclipse, RSX, Celica, Tiburon, etc....It's truly sad I'll agree.

I think with the SS truck, the decision was made not to compete with Lightning head-to-head. If you compare the two the SS has an emphasis on performance paired with utility as opposed to the all out Lightning.

The decisoins that brought us the lineup of the past year were made years ago when there were some different people setting the tone. Looks like things have changed and some of the info I posted before supports that. Can't happen overnight though...it's going to take a few years to bring to bare products now in development.

Of course, performance was supposed to have died in the early 70's....remember?

[JL8Jeff]

But if the marketplace calls for a performance truck and the competition is making it happen, then you need to address it. The new Lightning will smoke most LS1 F-body's, that's pretty impressive. The Syclone was a kick ars little truck. Apparently it was too successful so they stopped making it. I agree that the current truck/SUV trend is out of control with not being able to get a 4x4 for under $30K.

[markd79ta]

Personally, I think we are all just really ticked right now because F.O.R.D. has the Mustang, the Lightning, and the Marauder, and we were all left out in the cold. Hang in there, it will get better. Well, at least until 2012 when the next horrible barrage of EPA restrictions hit us hard.

I don't know about everybody else, but there is a lot of cool stuff out there that I can build and work on. I have enough to get done with my T/As, Vette, and Blazer so I don't really worry to much about what GM is building or not building. If I can, I want to buy a '96 Impala at some point to replace my Roadmaster as my daily driver, and I will be happy. Although, pre-toddler, I would have bought the GTO as my daily driver, now I need a four door brute. Too darn bad about the Caprice. errrrrrrrrrrrr! I just can't bring myself to buy the new Marauder as my new daily driver, but it is very COOL!!!

[Joe 1320]

Personally, I think there are far too many people that jump on the bashing bandwagon too far in advance. I'll never forget years ago during a huge Corvette gathering, I was having breakfast with Paul Zazarine (all 450 lbs of him) . This was during the time that the LT-1 was the premier small block. The LT-5 had just upped the HP to 405 HP and everyone was buzzing about the new aluminum small block about to debut in the 97 vette. All Paul did was bash the idea of multiple coils, bashed the unproven aluminum block, talked about how this would be the demise of the small block for Chevrolet. It was at that moment I realized how full of crap he really was...... He was so quick to bash what hadn't even been given the chance to prove itself. The sad thing is there were a line of people who were trying to evesdrop on the conversation and then they began to repeat his statements like a parrot. Later in the day I also realized he couldn't tune a car worth crap. His blown convertible Vette was running the same lap and drag times as my tweaked N/A convertible Vette. Belching black smoke on gearshifts, etc.... I had to laugh.

GM takes a platform and establishes a profit generating product. Once the platform begins to wane in the eyes of the general public, the tweaks and performance variants generate additional interest. This is why it appears that a car is cancelled right about the time they get it right. Well, "right" to the performance crowd doesn't matter to the rest of the buying public. The general public with their lease, rental and boring daily transportation drive the general's profits.

Now all of a sudden, GM starts thinking out of the box. They start bringing performance vehicles out during the initial run of a platform and the critics immediatly start bashing even before the stuff hits the street. If people continue to do this, it will further handicap the market as manufacturers may very well stop thinking out of the box and go right back to making us wait until the end of a platform cycle in order to get the "right" car for us gearheads. We should all wait and see what happens. If I had a Dime for every car that I saw in a magazine before it came out that I didn't care for and changed my mind the instant I saw it for real or test drove it, I could probably buy that built stroker motor for the T/A. We should be happy that the General is at least trying to bring stuff to the market sooner. Some of it will be a hit, some will be a miss, but at least you know they are starting out well ahead of the "end of platform" performance variants. Imagine what the GTO could be after 5 years of additional developments along with the R&D of aftermarket bolt on parts. This could be the new "golden age" of performance if we the public don't kill it off prematurely.

Sorry for the soapbox speech, I'm shutting up now.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
Personally, I think there are far too many people that jump on the bashing bandwagon too far in advance.

I totally agree with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give the thing a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by markd79ta
I totally agree with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give the thing a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second that as well.

[badTAbird]

Not bashing GM

but the GTO is B O R I N G
This is probably the next TA