The new GTO (Longwinded, but read anyway!)

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Re: A couple more thoughts on vehicle cost and the GTO

Originally posted by markd79ta
With regard to Traction Control and ABS. Both are idiot controls designed for people who don't have the skills necessary to operate a motor vehicle effectively. It is the assumption that the computer knows more then the driver which is probably true given the state of most American drivers...

On some fronts I agree with you... but there is no human being who can pump the breaks anywhere near as effectively as ABS can. ABS is a good thing.

[Joe 1320]

On a side note about the cost of trucks and SUVs. When I bought my 96 Crew Cab Dually brand new, It was loaded with leather, cruise, CD, power seats, power Door locks, power windows, power mirrors, sliding rear window, auto dim mirror with compass, all kinds of top of the line stuff like ground effects with built in steps, color matched bumpers, heavy duty towing package, etc. The price? $33K. I priced virtually the same truck with a few LESS options. The price? $45K

A 34% increase in 7 years. It did not cost 34% more to build. As a matter of fact, the cost per unit due to increased sales volume of trucks made the per unit cost less. Those kind of profits are why GM switched the Arlington plant over from producing Caprices and Impalas to trucks. They are pricing according to what the market will bear. And sooner or later, the market will be a bear. It has already been suffering from product saturation and incentive saturation. Imagine what the used truck and SUV market will be by 2005 when all these lease and out of warranty vehicles start to overwhelm the market. There is gonna be a flood....... it will be a buyers market for used product for sure.

[TimeLord]

And GM/Ford/D.C. will need even larger incentives to get the new even more overpriced rigs off the overstocked lots!!!!!

Shooting themselves in the foot while it is firmly placed in their mouth!!!!!!

[MyCamaroisGone]

lol Hey I just noticed something...Does anyone know why my original threadstarting post was deleted? Did I say a bad thing? What gives???

[Joe 1320]

It must have been deleted by accident. When someone double posts, usually we go in and remove the double post. Only when a thread gets this long and you try to edit, the default setting is to delete all posts in the thread. In the case of this long of a thread, you have to manually change each individual post from a "yes to delete" to a "No to delete". Do that with 55 posts and you might miss one which is exactly what I must have done. DOH! My apologies to all. crap.......

[markd79ta]

In order for them to bring a RWD, V8, 300hp car to market, they need to find the market requirement, how many models they can produce and sell, design it, crash test it, adhere to all of the safety standards which was a complete redo of the 4th gen f-body. If they can sell enough of them to keep the costs under 30K while keeping the profits up, they would. Unfortunately, only the convertible could have continued because of the side airbag requirement waiver on convertibles, but GM could not keep the factory open on a losing venture of refitting the 4th gen to meet these requirements. Along with that, comes the planning of the 2012 Clean Air Act compliance. Have you seen the new displacement on demand V8 from GM? It is under development to meet these requirements. Basically, GM didn't feel as though they could bring any f-body continuance/replacement to market at this time given that it was written off in the mid 90s. The GTO which was not at all a replacement of the f-body was already developed as the Manaro in Australia; they were able to bring it in as a limited production car, and it will change drastically if they turn toward full production in three or four years. It was suppose to be something fun and interesting that they could bring to market. There is a lot of planning and design going on at GM, but because regulation and marketing constraints it takes two to four years to bring a new platform to market. I think 2007 will be an interesting year because the phase-in period starts in order to meet some really stringent requirements coming down the pike especially for the trucks and SUVs. F.O.R.D. was able to warm over their '94 Mustang design because it was selling well. GM didn't want to take the hit of refitting an old platform. From the way it sounded when talking to some of the Chevy dealerships, the Camaros were not selling worth a darn. It is a bummer, I wished they would have planned for a rebirth, but it just wasn't important to the powers that be before Lutz took over. However, we are just buying time right now. As we look to 2020, things will be radically different then they are now.

[JL8Jeff]

The F-body's were not selling because GM was not trying to sell them. They stopped advertising them in 1998! They knew they were going to shut down the St. therese plant because it was too expensive to retrofit the plant to produce anything other than F-body's. Now they have to wait a few years to re-introduce the F-body because the union at St Therese had in their contract that the F-body could only be produced there. So saying that the sales were low on F-body's is true only because GM caused the slowdown in sales.

I guess we did get off the topic a little, didn't we!

[markd79ta]

Re: Re: A couple more thoughts on vehicle cost and the GTO

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
On some fronts I agree with you... but there is no human being who can pump the breaks anywhere near as effectively as ABS can. ABS is a good thing.

In some instances, especially in a crises/correction situation where the car pumping your brakes is not the best thing especially in dry conditions. Most people don't care, but it effects me especially if I am road racing or maneuvering around an oncoming accident (happened three years ago)I did OK with shooting a gap in a large scale pileup on I25 where both the car in front and behind me were piled in the labyrinth of broken metal and plastic...I absolutely hate this feature especially when a car doesn't respond as I direct it to! It isn't as bad as Traction Control, but it comes in a close second.

[casey02ws6]

Lots of interesting points here on the future of GM

I read in this month's Motor Trend a comment that I thought hit the nail on the head regarding the SSR - why would GM work so hard to "create a pedigree" for the SSR when they threw the Camaro/Firebird's 35 yr performance heritage off the cliff. I wonder what could have been if they had invested the money they put into the SSR into the Camaro and Firebird. As you guys have said the investment in the GTO was minimal - they already had the car. I think the GTO will succeed and the SSR will fail miserably.