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  • #16
    Here's another hole in your head!

    AMC V8's are just as notorious as the Gen 1 Vortec's at intake manifold leaks.

    I could be wrong as I am not all that familiar with AMC's, but your vacuum is actually a bit high I think from my experience. I've tested a few injected AMC 360's and they were right around 12-13 inches at idle. I'll have to check Alldata. You are a 360 right?

    Most other V8's are typically in the 16-20 range at idle. You might have a small vaccum leak, but that is not what concerns me. The most important part of performing a manifiold vacuum test is not the actual pressure reading, but the way the needle behaves on the gauge.

    If the needle oscillates quickly between a 3-4 in/HG variation, this normally means that you have worn intake valve guides. If the needle still bounces around in the same fashion as above, it points to tired valve springs.

    Valve timing does have an effect on vacuum in the manifold. If your timing chain has slipped one tooth and/or the timing chain is excessively stretched and effectively retarding your valve timing, your vacuum will be lower but it won't oscillate

    Too little ignition timing and bad rings can also show low vacuum readings, but they will not make the needle bounce around near as much.

    The higher the vaccum the lower the MAP output voltage; just the opposite for low vaccum. This is another reason I think you may have too much vacuum at idle.

    Do you have access to a scanner that can show you the barometric pressure reference the MAP obtains at key on? Is the vaccum port on the manifold larger than the gauge hose? If so, you need to use a reducer coupling, or else the vacuum readings can be inaccurate.

    If it ends up being that you do have too little vacuum, a good place to start would be the CTO valves and/or the CCP solenoid. The CTO valves are a common vaccum leak problem from what I'm told.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by fastTA
      Here's another hole in your head!

      AMC V8's are just as notorious as the Gen 1 Vortec's at intake manifold leaks.
      That's what I've heard too. That's where I'm going to start my search...

      Originally posted by fastTA
      I could be wrong as I am not all that familiar with AMC's, but your vacuum is actually a bit high I think from my experience. I've tested a few injected AMC 360's and they were right around 12-13 inches at idle. I'll have to check Alldata. You are a 360 right?
      No, actually I'm a person in CA who's trying to get his Jeep running and keep from pulling out his hair lol . Yeah, its a 360, fully balanced and rebuilt not but 2 yrs. ago. I've put maybe 1000+ mi. on it. I can also check my Chilton's manual when I get home and see what it says the vacuum is supposed to be at. Not sure if it will make a difference now that its EFI-ed and not carb-ed.

      Originally posted by fastTA
      Most other V8's are typically in the 16-20 range at idle. You might have a small vaccum leak, but that is not what concerns me. The most important part of performing a manifiold vacuum test is not the actual pressure reading, but the way the needle behaves on the gauge.

      If the needle oscillates quickly between a 3-4 in/HG variation, this normally means that you have worn intake valve guides. If the needle still bounces around in the same fashion as above, it points to tired valve springs.
      It wasn't even bouncing around that much. It was only about 1"/HG at idle, maybe 2" at most when I revved the motor.

      Originally posted by fastTA
      Valve timing does have an effect on vacuum in the manifold. If your timing chain has slipped one tooth and/or the timing chain is excessively stretched and effectively retarding your valve timing, your vacuum will be lower but it won't oscillate.
      The thing with the oscillation is, as I said, it goes with the speed of the motor. As the motor stumbles, the reading oscillates, dropping if I remember correctly.

      Originally posted by fastTA
      Too little ignition timing and bad rings can also show low vacuum readings, but they will not make the needle bounce around near as much.

      The higher the vaccum the lower the MAP output voltage; just the opposite for low vaccum. This is another reason I think you may have too much vacuum at idle.

      Do you have access to a scanner that can show you the barometric pressure reference the MAP obtains at key on? Is the vaccum port on the manifold larger than the gauge hose? If so, you need to use a reducer coupling, or else the vacuum readings can be inaccurate.
      I could probably talk to Craig and hook it up to his laptop, but I don't know of any software that will read it. Any suggestions?

      Originally posted by fastTA
      If it ends up being that you do have too little vacuum, a good place to start would be the CTO valves and/or the CCP solenoid. The CTO valves are a common vaccum leak problem from what I'm told.
      Ok, noob question...what are CTO valves and the CCP solenoid? Thanks Kev

      Thanks for the help so far guys, I really appreciate it. Its helping me fight off the thoughts of selling it just so I don't need to deal with it anymore.
      Steve
      79 FSJ - most expensive AMC Jeep ever Mods
      87 GN - its just a 6... Mods
      93 Z28 - slightly tweaked Mods
      http://home.comcast.net/~budlopez

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Steve93Z
        Not sure if it will make a difference now that its EFI-ed and not carb-ed.
        Will be slightly lower with the EFI setup due to the need for spring loaded metering rods in carb applications.

        Originally posted by Steve93Z
        It wasn't even bouncing around that much. It was only about 1"/HG at idle, maybe 2" at most when I revved the motor. The thing with the oscillation is, as I said, it goes with the speed of the motor. As the motor stumbles, the reading oscillates, dropping if I remember correctly.
        If the needle movement is minor and consistent with engine RPM/load, then it could also be a minor head gasket leak between adjacent cylinders.

        Originally posted by Steve93Z
        I could probably talk to Craig and hook it up to his laptop, but I don't know of any software that will read it. Any suggestions?
        Any GM enhanced parameters scanner, Tech 2's, and most LT1 PCM editing software will show you the reference baro pressure at KO/EO. This is helpful in seeing if the MAP is still good. Look on a website such as weather.com or wunderground.com to compare the MAP baro reading to that of your local baro online.


        Originally posted by Steve93Z
        k, noob question...what are CTO valves and the CCP solenoid? Thanks Kev
        The dual CTO (Coolant Tempterature Override) system is used to control the EGR and air pump. The CTO metering block is usually on the back passenger side of the intake manifold. CCP is the carbon canister purge.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by fastTA
          Will be slightly lower with the EFI setup due to the need for spring loaded metering rods in carb applications.
          Slightly as in 1-2" or 3-5"? I'll look up what the carb-ed vacuum is supposed to be.

          Originally posted by fastTA
          If the needle movement is minor and consistent with engine RPM/load, then it could also be a minor head gasket leak between adjacent cylinders.
          Ugh, thanks for making my heart sink lol . So, I'm guessing a compression check will tell me if its a head gasket or not? Any other way to tell? Could this also be the result of a vacuum leak and not the head gasket? (Lie to me if you have to lol j/k)

          Originally posted by fastTA
          Any GM enhanced parameters scanner, Tech 2's, and most LT1 PCM editing software will show you the reference baro pressure at KO/EO. This is helpful in seeing if the MAP is still good. Look on a website such as weather.com or wunderground.com to compare the MAP baro reading to that of your local baro online.
          So something like LT1 Edit would work? They have a downloadable demo if I remember correctly.

          Originally posted by fastTA
          The dual CTO (Coolant Tempterature Override) system is used to control the EGR and air pump. The CTO metering block is usually on the back passenger side of the intake manifold. CCP is the carbon canister purge.
          The CCP isn't that hard if I remember correctly, but I have a feeling the CTO would be a pain.

          I'll do the starter fluid trick over the weekend, assuming it doesn't rain. I don't want the teachers complaining about the unburned gas (I've got it parked at work for the time being).
          Steve
          79 FSJ - most expensive AMC Jeep ever Mods
          87 GN - its just a 6... Mods
          93 Z28 - slightly tweaked Mods
          http://home.comcast.net/~budlopez

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Steve93Z
            Slightly as in 1-2" or 3-5"? I'll look up what the carb-ed vacuum is supposed to be.
            1 maybe 1.5

            Originally posted by Steve93Z
            Ugh, thanks for making my heart sink lol . So, I'm guessing a compression check will tell me if its a head gasket or not? Any other way to tell? Could this also be the result of a vacuum leak and not the head gasket? (Lie to me if you have to lol j/k)
            Only if the intake manifold were leaking right next to an intake runner.

            Originally posted by Steve93Z
            So something like LT1 Edit would work? They have a downloadable demo if I remember correctly.
            Yes, just remember to not actually start the Jeep. Just turn the key on.

            Comment

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