E85....I don't know if this has been discussed yet or not...

[zebragirl83]

Has anyone heard talk about this new form of fuel yet?
We have been talking a LOT about it in my Plant Physiology class lately and just thought it would be a good topic to bring up!

If you've never heard of it... here's some help...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

Here's how GM feels about the whole thing...

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/e85/

Y'all... it's CRAZY how soon we are going to run out of oil and gas at the rate that the U.S. is using right now!!! We tend to do that in America... use and use and then let future generations suffer for it...{cough: Social Security :cough}
Has anyone read the book Red Sky At Morning It's a very informative book on just such issues... and a LOT more.. like goings on in the Amazon and such...
Anyway... this has been a topic in my life lately... and I know that if it came right down to it I would spend the money for a car that uses ethanol as it's main fuel source if it came available in the South...
Just wondering how y'all felt?

[Dave M]

I think you'll find most of the guys here will disagree with you on how soon we will run out of oil. But I think no matter when it might happen, the truth is that oil is a finite resource. There may be a lot of it or a little of it left, but eventually it will run out. Fuel made from plants or hydrogen or other renewable resources should be a much hotter topic in this country and among our politicians.

[Steel2686]

I agree we should be, and in many cases, are looking into other fuel sources. However, as Dave said, I'll have to disagree with how soon we'll be tapped dry of oil. Many college proffessors love to talk about doom and gloom of the country and planet in general.

I just go by the old saying... It's never as good as we hope it to be, and it's never as bad as they say it is.

Still, your point is not lost on me. We NEED to find better sources of fuel. As dave said, oil is a finite source. We need as close to an infinite source as possible. It's out there, it's just a matter of funding the research to get it.

[Christopherrr]

We need as close to an infinite source as possible. It's out there, it's just a matter of funding the research to get it.

No research or funding needed, it's Joe 1320 after Taco Bell...
















HAHAHAHA!!! Gotta go!!! my pink car needs some more turtle wax, I have 413 coats now!

[Steel2686]

No research or funding needed, it's Ken after Taco Bell...

HAHAHAHA!!! Gotta go!!!

Good luck with that. I believe you just made "The list".

[Z Ya Later]

No research or funding needed, it's Ken after Taco Bell...

HAHAHAHA!!! Gotta go!!!

The original form of human kindness, strength and beauty, and an overall wonderfulness.............. how dare you speak ill of him... may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits!!! you pink car pimp!!!

[DeWynter]

The Oil Sands in Alberta are estimated (conservitivly) to last 300 Years. Its the Second largest find in the History of the world. The oil finds in the middle east are the largest. Alberta has the second and third largest finds on record. I don't think we are going to run out anytime soon. The biggest problem with the Oil sands is its hard to produce. That being said I think we still should find alternative fuels.

[wolfdogs]

E85 is not new......at all.

we (gsa fleet) have been buying dual fuel E85 vehicles for the govt since around 1992....... many agencies have ordered them and we have them leased out... trying to comply with the Alternate fuels bill. problem is availability of the fuel... many of our dual fuel e85's have never had ethonol in them...the stations are far and few between.

[zebragirl83]

If you think about how much oil and gas was available when this nation first began, and then look at how much it has gone down since we started powering cars, plants, etc. with this fuel. By "soon" I don't mean that in the next 10 years we will suffer... but you let us get 100 years into the future with all the advances and multiplying people in the world and we will be up a creek... We can't wait until then to get started on this issue... We've made that mistake many times over... We will be sorry if we don't think about this kind of stuff earlier... Issues not related to this but very similar are killing animals and plants that are very important to human survival... We have to start thinking about all these things... not just an alternate fuel source!
That's more my point than anything!

[Dave M]

The Oil Sands in Alberta are estimated (conservitivly) to last 300 Years. Its the Second largest find in the History of the world. The oil finds in the middle east are the largest. Alberta has the second and third largest finds on record. I don't think we are going to run out anytime soon. The biggest problem with the Oil sands is its hard to produce. That being said I think we still should find alternative fuels.

300 yrs at what usage rate? What if oil becomes scarce in 50 years and the oil sands are tapped at a much faster rate to satisfy our ever increasing demand for oil? Did the 300 yr estimate take that into consideration or is the 300 yr estimate at current usage rates only? What if we find a more efficient way to extract the oil, and hence begin using more oil from these sands?

Not only do we need to find alternative souces of fuel but conservation needs to be practiced too so that demand does not continue to skyrocket.

[wolfdogs]

tell you what one of our biggest problems is...and rarely is it addressed, and thats the amount of traffic that has emerged over the last 10 years. you folks that live out out in the country a ways have no idea how bad its gotten in and around major cities...

for instance, when we first moved here from Texas in 90, having lived here before in the heart of the rat race of N.VA-Washington DC metroplex, i bought "out" from there... 50 miles south in Stafford County VA. all there was ....was fast food places and gas stations.... and I95 south of Dale City, which is 18 miles for DC...was wide open for travel most of the time except holiday weekends...

now.... traffic is bumper to bumper...from DC all the way to Fredericksburg VA...on i95.... on any given day!!!! and thats 15 miles farther than Stafford!!!!!!!!

its outt a control~!!! to go anywhere, it takes you 2 ot 3 times the amount of fuel because of stinking traffic...and the way people drive...accidents all the time...more fuel...sitting at a dead stop for hours sometimes for the clean up crews to finish.

[zebragirl83]

not to mention... it used to be far too expensive to extract the oil from the oil sands... it's pretty sad when it's now becoming our only option!

Also...
Man y'all pick these posts apart....

Sorry... "new" is the wrong word... but it's definately relatively new... I know that the South hasn't even started in on it... it's pretty much only used in the Midwest right now... and there are a heck of a lot more "gas powered" cars in the U.S. than anything else... It's definately a new concept to a LOT of people... there are a lot of people that have never even remotely heard of it... that's the problem!

[DeWynter]

300 yrs at what usage rate? What if oil becomes scarce in 50 years and the oil sands are tapped at a much faster rate to satisfy our ever increasing demand for oil? Did the 300 yr estimate take that into consideration or is the 300 yr estimate at current usage rates only? What if we find a more efficient way to extract the oil, and hence begin using more oil from these sands?

Not only do we need to find alternative souces of fuel but conservation needs to be practiced too so that demand does not continue to skyrocket.

The Usage rate was done including export, pop increase, and rate of usage increase. It was on the discovery HD channel the other night. The thing is I'm not saying use and abuse, I just mean the doom sayers are a bit over zellus. In Alberta Oil was thought to be scarce in the 50s-60s and upto the mid 70s. Then ther was better ways of finding it and boom, we had lots of oil. I belive ther is still large deposites that are un found yet. Heck we still have a big chunk of the ocen floor to map never mind look for oil. Technology will increase and so will finds, but at the same time I hope so will alternative fuels. I can't wait to have a hydrogen powered V8 convertion kit.

[zebragirl83]

and our ties in the middle east are looking promising? not exactly...

[Roger in Kensington]

I know that gloom and doom always entices (from The Population Bomb by Paul Ehrlich, to Famine, 1975! by William and Paul Paddock, to various end-of-world scenarios promulgated by an assortment of religions) . . . BUT . . . the sky is not falling, Zebragirl.

While I am very much in favor of conservation and energy efficiency, let me offer a few facts.

Let's neglect for the moment the many billions of barrels of oil available domestically in Alaska, off our coasts (did you see recently that Mexico has found a huge oil deposit of its Caribbean coast?), plus what we are already producing domestically . . . all of which is available through conventional drilling and recovery.

Let's also neglect the (modestly) impressive amount of oil available from Alberta tar sands.

Did you know that the Department of Energy estimates that there is potentially over two trillion barrels of oil available right here in the good ol' USA in our own oil shale and tar sands deposits.

That simply dwarfs the proven reserves of the Middle East.

In terms of energy potential, though, that's nothing compared to what is available from methan hydrates. (Methane whatdrates, Roger?)

Take a look at this article from the Department of Energy. Let me quote it:

"Worldwide, estimates of the natural gas potential of methane hydrate approach 400 million trillion cubic feet -- a staggering figure compared to the 5,500 trillion cubic feet that make up the world's currently proven gas reserves."

If you're keeping score, that's 72 thousand times current reserves, a virtually inexhaustible supply.

It is there for the taking.

Ethanol as a solution? Not likely unless someone develops a process to produce it efficiently without large inputs of fossil fuels. Otherwise, all you're going to do is drive up the price of beef and bourbon.

How about hydrogen? As an automotive fuel, forget it. Suggest you read The Hype About Hydrogen, by Joseph Romm. He's a global-warming hysteric (IMHO), but he makes excellent points about the pros and cons of hydrogen as an energy source. Furthermore, he provides a really good explanation of fuel-cell technology.

Do you feel any better, Zebragirl?

Take it from one of the "old guys" on this board: I've been subjected to far too many "sky-is-falling" predictions in my life -- of which have yet to materialize -- to be much concerned about us running out of oil. The ONLY way I see that happening is if moonbat tree-huggers keep us from exploiting the enormous energy supplies available to us.

As for $0.99-a-gallon gasoline, those days are gone for good.