We have a lot of conservatives here... is it time for Bush/Cheney to resign?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

About time!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070705/...JU1FM5G4AE1vAI

[Joshu]

All the GB folks are doing is trying to bring up something else to make their failures less noticeable. No one else better to do this to than the Clintons. Somalia didn't run our country aground financially and didn't cost is this much in terms of human life.

This thread is about whether he should resign or not. So yes, most American's have lost confidence in GB. In a company the board (the people) would give the CEO a "zero confidence" label and even though he is the CEO, he would have no power.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

All the GB folks are doing is trying to bring up something else to make their failures less noticeable. No one else better to do this to than the Clintons. Somalia didn't run our country aground financially and didn't cost is this much in terms of human life.

You have to be kidding! More than a million Somlians died in the "ethnic cleansings". Clinton should have done a hell of a lot more than he did there. Talk about a failure. That was a failure to act. At least GWB had the gonads to do something even if it wasn't perfect. At least he tried. That is a hell of a lot more than you can say for Bill Clinton.

This thread is about whether he should resign or not. So yes, most American's have lost confidence in GB. In a company the board (the people) would give the CEO a "zero confidence" label and even though he is the CEO, he would have no power.

If everybody had the balls that GWB has and had gotten behind what this country was trying to accomplish in Iraq rather than spending their time trying to bring him down so they could get elected his numbers would be over 80% approval.

I don't support either party. I support what is right and what is wrong. We should have gone into Somalia like we did Iraq and stopped the killing. The rest of the world should have too. The world has become a bunch of pansies and if we don't wake up we are going to be just like France in 1938 when the Germans rolled through. This time it's the Islamic fascist that are rolling through. We just celebrated our independence day. The day we celebrate our freedom and our liberty. They are not free. Hundreds of thousands of people have given their lives to give all of us the freedoms we enjoy today. Unfortunately there are people that want to take that away from us like the Islamic fascist today or the Russians, Germans, Japanese and British have in our past.

[Joshu]

Ok Jeff, I will flex and say Somalia was not handled properly. I was like 10 when it happened. But if ethnic cleansing was so important back then and everyone gives Clinton garb about it, why does GB apparently not give a crap about Darfur? Same situation so why does GB not get any heat for Darfur? If you are going to give Clinton heat for Somalia you also must give some to GB.

And it's not just GB alone!

Politicians from each side are cheating with this whole re-districting crap. I feel we need a revolution in this country. Everything nowadays: pride, freedom, HONESTY, righteousness, and justice seem to come with a price tag to these goons in office.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Well I think Darfur is because we would be stretched too thin if we did more there. If it wasn't for Iraq I think we would be. I do give him heat for not doing more but I don't think we can do any more right.

You are right about the redistricting. One of the western states passed a law saying they can't do that crap any more. It says it is done by area and can't split communities any more. Boy Georgia was the worst about it when the dem were in control. Sonny, the governor, has gone in and fixed a lot of it.

I'm with ya on the revolution. The government is not working for the people anymore.

[MDMike]

Is it too much to ask that you spell Sen. McCain's name correctly?

We are not supposed to get personal.

Assuming that "Scooter" lied (about what?), who died?

Lied when he didnt fully disclose evidence in a criminal investigation, and in a deposition; obstruction, and pergery.
3000+ and counting troops , and countless innocent Iraqis, in a needless, lied-into, badly managed civil war that distracts us from the real threats.

And if nobody died when "Scooter" lied, then shouldn't he receive the same punishment as when Clinton lied (nice of you to admit that he did)?

Clinton wasn't punished. All 3 branches of our govt operated, and he wasnt prosecuted. Impeached while the GOP shouldve been fixing problems with their majority, but not prosecuted. Ken Starr spent more money than Whitewater ever made Bill, but Clinton was too busy running the best economy in history to be bothered.

Wanna really see the Kool-Aid flow in "blue" regions? Bush should pardon Libby . . . and also pardon Clinton!! Because Clinton -- by his own admission -- is still a felon.


Can you supply a link where it states that he is? I am not staying up on current events since I was told 'Mission Accomplished'. And not a Druge, FoxNews, or other conservative shill, pls?

Who will be the first among this Board to argue that Clinton shouldn't be pardoned?

Hillary will take care of that when she is elected. Pass the koolaid.
As for Somalia, I am retired military, and it along with the Balkins **** and winning the cold war, they were the only just causes I was elegible for. Bill knew the USA public wouldnt stand for US losses helping Somalis if it did not keep oil flowing, and Blackhawk sealed it. Reagan bailed from Beirut after the Marine Barracks, same deal. Milosivic died in the Hague, so that couldve gone worse. Bill carried out every request GHWBush asked at the transition, incl Somalia. The DoD (incl myself) didnt like Bill for Dont Ask, Dont Tell, but it has never really been improved on.
I remain glad that Scooter was commuted, and impressed he paid his fine today. After all, he defende Marc Rich! As an independent, it is good to see the correct exercise of Executive power, vice Cheney's and Rove's idea of it...

[ConElite]

Ever since everything with 9/11 happened and Bush lead us to this disaster he calls "The Search for weapons of Mass Destruction," a bunch of strange fines have popped up. The whole country has become a bunch of Pansies as Jeff said. I still believe that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. "Loose Change," (movie) has a lot of amazing facts, although not all true, very interesting topics were raised. You can Say I'm young and stupid but I have over 5 high school friends over sea's and they email me and say how the majority of soldiers don't agree with why they are there. You know both political paries are simply playing games and trying to make each other look bad. That's politics. The same part is Bush is sending his people out there with, in all reality no real motive. Its all in an effort to create a situation out of nothing in order to keep the people concentrated on the War to prevent people from seeing the Nothing he has been doing for the his people. Its all cover ups and its Stupid. Industries and all the Monitoring and FCC is all in an effort to fund George W. Bush's War. Its as simple as that. Everyone all of a sudden is all sensitive to everything. Everyone hates everyone and everything is so censored on TV and radio that its almost pointless to listen or watch TV/radio. Slowly but surely our freedoms are being taken from us, and it seems like nobody sees it. I'm young as hell and I still remember in the 90's that everything was a lot more lay back and the world was able to handle a whole hell of a lot more without being offended.

[MDMike]

Bush correct on immigration

Nice takes, Eddie.
One thing I know, and perhaps we all agree on, is that I sure appreciate those guys.
Heck, I think Bush has actually done some things well of late; I really thought we'd finally get some real-world immigration revamp done, but dude got undercut by his base again...

[Christopherrr]

Bush isn't or shouldn't resign. All Presidencies has their flaws and skeletons. We can be critical all we want, point fingers here and there, play the blame game, but when it boils down the nitty-gritty, it's who is willing to protect this country...Bush has taken steps to provide protection and that gets my vote any day.

Sure, I don't agree with his immigration views and that sorry excuse for a fence along the boarder, but what can I say, he's kept this country from attacks since 9/11/2001. You cannot argue that fact.

We are becoming a country with no integrity, no honor, no sense of responsibility or courage. We are too afraid to hurt each others feelings and are now becoming a bunch of pansies. Quite frankly, I think we are ashamed to be Americans.

I tell you what, if we to be attacked on US soil from all corners, I'm willing to bet we'll be in chaos and no one would know what to do except expecting help from the government.

Be prudent and realize the government is too big too much...cover your own arse and you wouldn't have to rely on anyone else...I'm ranting now.

[wolfdogs]

Except me.

shoot..you dont know jack chit....................or......maybe you know him ..

[Jeff_in_Atl]

shoot..you dont know jack chit....................or......maybe you know him ..

I don't now Jack but I do know Bull.

[Roger in Kensington]

Hillary will take care of that when she is elected. Pass the koolaid.
As for Somalia, I am retired military, and it along with the Balkins **** and winning the cold war, they were the only just causes I was elegible for. Bill knew the USA public wouldnt stand for US losses helping Somalis if it did not keep oil flowing, and Blackhawk sealed it. Reagan bailed from Beirut after the Marine Barracks, same deal. Milosivic died in the Hague, so that couldve gone worse. Bill carried out every request GHWBush asked at the transition, incl Somalia. The DoD (incl myself) didnt like Bill for Dont Ask, Dont Tell, but it has never really been improved on.
I remain glad that Scooter was commuted, and impressed he paid his fine today. After all, he defende Marc Rich! As an independent, it is good to see the correct exercise of Executive power, vice Cheney's and Rove's idea of it...

How quickly you forget.

Clinton wasn't punished?

Do some research:

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/usd.htm

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...nton.contempt/

If he wasn't punished, then why did he pay $850,000 to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit, plead no contest to a contempt of court citation, pay a $90,000 fine to Jones' lawyers, and lose his license to practice law for 5 years?

Hmmmm?

[Roger in Kensington]

Since no one has mentioned this, I will . . .

I was to see if anyone would mention what it means that this was a commutation and not a pardon. As such, the appeals process continues.

If the conviction is vacated upon appeal, then Libby will never have been a felon, the appeals court having determined that the original conviction was in error. Of course, the prosecutor could appeal that decision, but if rejected, Libby would be free and clear. Just like Oliver North.

What will you say then?

(A pardon would have had the same legal effect, vacating the conviction, but without having exhausted the legal process.)

Of course, Bill Clinton's conviction, his having pleaded no contest to his contempt of court citation, would still be in effect.

Oh, it's . . . it's all just so unfair (sob). The vast, right-wing conspiracy strikes again.

[MDMike]

hey, Paula

Thanks for the links. I do forget quickly...
I doubt he considered those punishment. Likely was just glad to get them out of the way, so he could do his duty, and serve humankind after his terms were over, like GHWB, and Carter.
Jones made more money off the evangelical snakeoil salesmen than Oral Roberts. Nice nosejob and spread in the magazines, too! If she is a conservative and/or GOP and/or good ole' boy heroine, and Larry Fitzgerald is a crook for doing his job re Scooter, then partisanship has reached a new, horrible level. Good thing the GOP is finally moving away from Bush, maybe something will get done about this 'surge"...
http://mfile.akamai.com/21772/wmv/ga...kportraits.asx

How quickly you forget.
Clinton wasn't punished?

Do some research:

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/usd.htm

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...nton.contempt/

If he wasn't punished, then why did he pay $850,000 to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit, plead no contest to a contempt of court citation, pay a $90,000 fine to Jones' lawyers, and lose his license to practice law for 5 years?

Hmmmm?

[MDMike]

So, you think Libby was innocent?
Did he get a fair trail?
Was his sentence harsher than the usual and prescribed?
What does Clinton have to do with Scooter's guilt or innocence, anyway?
Do we let a felon off because we didnt like how another defendant was litigated?
Do you really approved of the original basis for Scooter lying and obstructing, namely that the administration wanted to needlessly discredit and humiliate someone who disagreed with them, and used govt agencies illegally to do so, when they should have been running the war worth half a damn(OH, thats right, mission accomplished, silly me!)?
Okay, have at it. Thank God this line of thought is finally not politically advantageous. But pls stop the 'well, Clinton did worse..' lines. Sheesh...

I was to see if anyone would mention what it means that this was a commutation and not a pardon. As such, the appeals process continues.

If the conviction is vacated upon appeal, then Libby will never have been a felon, the appeals court having determined that the original conviction was in error. Of course, the prosecutor could appeal that decision, but if rejected, Libby would be free and clear. Just like Oliver North.

What will you say then?

(A pardon would have had the same legal effect, vacating the conviction, but without having exhausted the legal process.)

Of course, Bill Clinton's conviction, his having pleaded no contest to his contempt of court citation, would still be in effect.

Oh, it's . . . it's all just so unfair (sob). The vast, right-wing conspiracy strikes again.