Test drove the 05 GT0, impressions within....

[Joe 1320]

The local dealer just got in a new GTO 6 speed, so I stopped in an took it for a test drive. Here's what I found......

The 05 does feel like a better overall car than the 04. The car felt fairly solid, fit and finish was decent. The car is remarkably quiet, power is acceptable with the new 400 HP LS2. Certain things do detract though. Trunk room is terrible, shifter feels like It's made from the same material as a rubber ball, wheel hop on an aggressive start, back seat ingress/egress poor.
Overall.... when the hammer dropped, it was quiet and about as quick as my bolt 97WS6. The WS6 feels more brutish, spins the tires easier, makes more noise and runs about the same times. The GTO's steering doesn't feel as quick... it seemed to take more steering input to acheive the same rate of turn..... more like a sedan than a sport(y) car. The a/c controls feel a little flimsy. It felt like something might come apart rather quickly and there was a lack of a positive feel in each position. The a/c fan produced a good amount of air volume and temperatures cooled off quickly. Power mirror controls worked well, visibility was good. The ignition key fob could use some downsizing. I would rate the car a solid 8.0 on a scale of 10....... the things that would have made it a 10 would be better controls, better rear seat access, more trunk storage and a better shifter.

In summary.....

The good: good power, good feel, fairly quiet.

The bad: Shifter is horrible at best, wheel hop, controls feel flimsy.

if I were shopping for a performance coupe, this wouldn't be a bad buy. There are other things quicker, faster and more expensive. For the dollar spent, not too bad of a value. Not sure if I would want to give up an f-body for one of these, but not a bad ride.

Ken..... that shifter is crap. You should ditch that thing asap! It bends sideways in my hand!

[casey02ws6]

The GTOs are really growing on me - but I am not ready to part with my WS6 for one.

[Rob]

Shifter is actually better on the 05 if you can believe that! Its easily taken care of with either the B&M or Ripshift, or even a modified SLP F-Body shifter. Wheel hop is still a problem as is the trunk space and rear seat egress solution.

Just buy it, you know you want it

[fastTa]

The very first thing I would do after upgrading to a better shifter would be to upgrade the driveshaft. The stock 2" 2 piece, rubber mount driveshaft is the wheelhop culprit. It does not utilize a u-joint and is known to fail fairly regularly and therefore the weak link in the drivetrain.

BMR makes a nice 3" chrome-moly DS as a replacement upgrade, BUT it is $1100! But I think it probably be worth the money.

BTW the '05 goat is growing on me a little more as well.

[wolfdogs]

the shifter is the only thing i dont like so far.
i have 500 miles now.

today.it took her up to a very high speed, this car is glued to the road.

and today...i can tell you, its faster than my CompTa.......

nuff said.



now: dont care about truck space, all ive ever have is a zaino kit and a gym bag. dont care about back seat, nobody will ever ride there.

bite me........


LOL

[99WS6TA]

one of the guys that i work with just got one last week and i drove it yesterday. I am pretty impressed with the car but at the same time i have a few dissappointments. first off the car has great power, handles like a dream, one of the best interiors that i have ever been in. some of the things that i dont like, the shifter, does have some wheel hop, and the look of the car could have looked more aggressive. to me it just looks to much like a family sadan. but the 05 looks better due to the hood. but over all i think that i is a good car. ist like having a sleeper because it does not look like it would be that fast.

[Rob]

The very first thing I would do after upgrading to a better shifter would be to upgrade the driveshaft. The stock 2" 2 piece, rubber mount driveshaft is the wheelhop culprit. It does not utilize a u-joint and is known to fail fairly regularly and therefore the weak link in the drivetrain.

BMR makes a nice 3" chrome-moly DS as a replacement upgrade, BUT it is $1100! But I think it probably be worth the money.

BTW the '05 goat is growing on me a little more as well.

Not entirely true. The stock driveshaft has been in quite a few 10-11 second Monaro's for a couple of years without failure. I have only heard of one failure in the GTO and it was a heavily modded 6spd car. It is not the cause of the wheel hop. It's one of them and just changing the driveshaft to a one piece doesn't eliminate it at all. Its more like driveshaft, shocks, springs, bushings, mounts, tires, etc that will eliminate the wheel hop.

BMR makes 4 driveshafts now. Chrome-moly(not for use with manual because of vibeshaft), 3" and 3.5" aluminum, and carbon fibre.

[fastTa]

Talked to a couple of well known f-bod speed shops and they said they are getting quite a few calls from customers looking to buy a new DS because they broke there's with a bone stock car. It is a common problem, and BMR actually rushed production on all of there GTO driveshafts because even they were aware of the problem and they knew they would sell.

There are lots of posts over on ls1tech where people have said that there wheelhop was greatly reduced by simply switching to a better DS. Just makes sense.

I think a few suspension tweaks and some poly under there would definitely help though.

[wolfdogs]

part of the prob with the wheel hop is the tread rubber compound on the g force kdws... is takes a while to heat up. im surprised they didnt go with the kdw's.

now, as far as "family sedan".....LOL...... i love this sleeper "not in your face look".. me , having the sports apearance package, ive had folks ask me if its a bmw, .......... an accura,...........or a grand prix......LOL

[Rob]

Talked to a couple of well known f-bod speed shops and they said they are getting quite a few calls from customers looking to buy a new DS because they broke there's with a bone stock car. It is a common problem, and BMR actually rushed production on all of there GTO driveshafts because even they were aware of the problem and they knew they would sell.

There are lots of posts over on ls1tech where people have said that there wheelhop was greatly reduced by simply switching to a better DS. Just makes sense.

I think a few suspension tweaks and some poly under there would definitely help though.

Really? Nobody on any GTO forum, or Monaro forum for that matter, has driveshaft problems. BMR did them because they didn't want it to become a problem. They didn't rush into production with it. Maybe after it was in production to solve the vibeshaft with the manual trans. I would really like to know what shops you are talking about.

LS1tech is a great place for info but hardly for GTO specific. Go to LS1gto to get real GTO info. There are also a few Australian forums that have been running these cars longer than we have and don't have the problems you speak of. Wheel hop gets better, but not much with just a driveshaft mod. Takes quite a bit of mods and money to eliminate it.

[N20LT4Bird]

The goat is starting to grow on me too. I think we need to embrace it because its really a great performance car value.......and its the only thing we have besides the vette. I think people are way too critical of the car.....look at car and driver....somehow they figured a way to make the mustang beat the GTO.....c'mon, the goat CRUSHED the stang in every performance category they rated. They chose the stang as the winner of the shootout because it was 5k cheaper (OK, I can kinda see the point there) and it was BETTER LOOKING! What the *)&!!?? This is purely subjective! Anyways, us GM folk have gotta get behind the goat because it really is a muscle car....and if we dont, we may be left with nothing but FWD superchargers......

[Joe 1320]

The goat is starting to grow on me too. I think we need to embrace it because its really a great performance car value.......Anyways, us GM folk have gotta get behind the goat because it really is a muscle car....and if we dont, we may be left with nothing but FWD superchargers......

Very true....... it's growing on me too. The biggest drawback I see is "affordable" performance. $32K is still a hefty price tag for spirited performance. While most other things are a subjective opinion, price is a HUGE factor for the average car shopper. I think I would pick up an 05 if it could be had for $25K.... that's moostang price territory. In my opinion, that's the only part of GM's current marketing that is really killing them. History is full of lessor quality cars from other manufacturers that sold well even in spite of their shortcomings due to winning the price war. The Moostang is doing it all over again..... it's not superior, it just costs a significant amount less.

[fastTa]

Really? Nobody on any GTO forum, or Monaro forum for that matter, has driveshaft problems. BMR did them because they didn't want it to become a problem. They didn't rush into production with it. Maybe after it was in production to solve the vibeshaft with the manual trans. I would really like to know what shops you are talking about.

LS1tech is a great place for info but hardly for GTO specific. Go to LS1gto to get real GTO info. There are also a few Australian forums that have been running these cars longer than we have and don't have the problems you speak of. Wheel hop gets better, but not much with just a driveshaft mod. Takes quite a bit of mods and money to eliminate it.

Yeah, it seems that having the TSB done for the rear shim, some poly bushings, and the swap to Harrop cover seems to also help with the wheel hop by better keeping the pinion angle steady under load by the nature of the stronger mounting characteristics. It also helps to keep the inherant differemtial deflection under wraps. Additionally, when you change to one of the BMR driveshafts you get the much improved billet pinion flange (yoke adaptor). I spoke with BMR at the end of last summer and they told me that they were getting several calls with drivetrain failures on the new goat, especially the weak factory driveshaft. So they really pushed getting out their new line of driveshafts for the goat.

Quotes direct from BMR website. :

The factory driveshaft in the GTO is the weakest part of the entire driveline. It's a two piece design that is only 2 inches in diameter and uses rubber mounts instead of u-joints. Not only do the rubber mounts contribute to wheelhop, they are notorious for failing on even slightly modified 6 speed cars.

OE CV axles typically won't fail because the driveshaft goes first. Once the driveshaft is upgraded, the CV's become the next weak link and typically break at the axles' transition on the shaft.

A good friend of mine picked up his new 2004 GTO and about 2 weeks later wanted to go see what it would do so he had me go with him to the track to give him a few pointers. First time at the line he did about 4k clutch dump, dead hooked, then BAM! Driveshaft was history. Took it to Alamo Performance here in San Antonio and they said they had been doing about a driveshaft a week on the new GTO's. Talked to Texas Speed same thing. Went to a local f-body meet and there were a few guys over there that also owned goats and one of them had just complained of popping his driveshaft and breaking the rear cover mounting bolts. He said it also destroyed his passenger side muffler when the driveshaft came apart.

I think I would just do some of the drivetrain and chassis/suspension upgrades regardless. Makes driving the new goat so much more fun.

[Rob]

Yeah, it seems that having the TSB done for the rear shim, some poly bushings, and the swap to Harrop cover seems to also help with the wheel hop by better keeping the pinion angle steady under load by the nature of the stronger mounting characteristics. It also helps to keep the inherant differemtial deflection under wraps. Additionally, when you change to one of the BMR driveshafts you get the much improved billet pinion flange (yoke adaptor). I spoke with BMR at the end of last summer and they told me that they were getting several calls with drivetrain failures on the new goat, especially the weak factory driveshaft. So they really pushed getting out their new line of driveshafts for the goat.

Quotes direct from BMR website. :

The factory driveshaft in the GTO is the weakest part of the entire driveline. It's a two piece design that is only 2 inches in diameter and uses rubber mounts instead of u-joints. Not only do the rubber mounts contribute to wheelhop, they are notorious for failing on even slightly modified 6 speed cars.

OE CV axles typically won't fail because the driveshaft goes first. Once the driveshaft is upgraded, the CV's become the next weak link and typically break at the axles' transition on the shaft.

A good friend of mine picked up his new 2004 GTO and about 2 weeks later wanted to go see what it would do so he had me go with him to the track to give him a few pointers. First time at the line he did about 4k clutch dump, dead hooked, then BAM! Driveshaft was history. Took it to Alamo Performance here in San Antonio and they said they had been doing about a driveshaft a week on the new GTO's. Talked to Texas Speed same thing. Went to a local f-body meet and there were a few guys over there that also owned goats and one of them had just complained of popping his driveshaft and breaking the rear cover mounting bolts. He said it also destroyed his passenger side muffler when the driveshaft came apart.

I think I would just do some of the drivetrain and chassis/suspension upgrades regardless. Makes driving the new goat so much more fun.

First I've heard of any real problems, really. I can say that BMR makes great stuff and obviously wants to sell it.

But the real weak link in the whole driveline is the LS6 clutch. It just can't take any abuse before slipping. That is the number 1 failure. Next is the posi, they also seem to let loose after some good power(11 second cars) have at it. There has only been one GTO on all the forums that has had a driveshaft go.

The half shafts are a problem on earlier cars because they didn't lock tite the bolts causing them to back out. But there were a couple that broke them on real good launches. They still didn't have any driveshaft problems though.

Either way, upgrading all the driveline parts(although extremely pricey) will make it last. Although, BMR sheared one of their axle shafts! They are converting to a 9" now.

[Joe 1320]

But the real weak link in the whole driveline is the LS6 clutch. It just can't take any abuse before slipping. That is the number 1 failure. .

The test car I drove had a little bit of a clutch stink when I got done. I was wondering how well it would hold up to some abuse.